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    Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

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    GarryB

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:08 am

    And would mean further standardisation between the two types... which is a good thing.


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    Cyrus the great

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Cyrus the great on Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:59 am

    It's been said  before by others, but I really do think that the GSh-23 would be a great weapon to replace the 2a42 in both the Ka-52 and the Mi-28. 1000+ 23×115mm rounds would be better than having 460 30×165mm in the Ka-52.  

    The obvious downside is that the GSh-23 has an effective range of 1200-1500m against ground targets whereas the 2a42 has an effective range of 4km - more than 2x the range. The GSh-23 should have its rate of fire significantly reduced down to 800 rounds a minute.

    Some questions:

    Why is the Ka-52 the only Russian attack helicopter without bullet-proof glass?

    Has Kamov resolved the vibration issues that prevented the placement of the mast-mounted CM radar? I read somewhere that they have achieved this.

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    Militarov

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Militarov on Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:44 am

    Cyrus the great wrote:It's been said  before by others, but I really do think that the GSh-23 would be a great weapon to replace the 2a42 in both the Ka-52 and the Mi-28. 1000+ 23×115mm rounds would be better than having 460 30×165mm in the Ka-52.  

    The obvious downside is that the GSh-23 has an effective range of 1200-1500m against ground targets whereas the 2a42 has an effective range of 4km - more than 2x the range. The GSh-23 should have its rate of fire significantly reduced down to 800 rounds a minute.

    Some questions:

    Why is the Ka-52 the only Russian attack helicopter without bullet-proof glass?

    Has Kamov resolved the vibration issues that prevented the placement of the mast-mounted CM radar? I read somewhere that they have achieved this.


    And how would you make ejection seat work with bulletproof glass may i ask Very Happy

    Cyrus the great

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Cyrus the great on Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:50 am

    Militarov wrote:
    Cyrus the great wrote:It's been said  before by others, but I really do think that the GSh-23 would be a great weapon to replace the 2a42 in both the Ka-52 and the Mi-28. 1000+ 23×115mm rounds would be better than having 460 30×165mm in the Ka-52.  

    The obvious downside is that the GSh-23 has an effective range of 1200-1500m against ground targets whereas the 2a42 has an effective range of 4km - more than 2x the range. The GSh-23 should have its rate of fire significantly reduced down to 800 rounds a minute.

    Some questions:

    Why is the Ka-52 the only Russian attack helicopter without bullet-proof glass?

    Has Kamov resolved the vibration issues that prevented the placement of the mast-mounted CM radar? I read somewhere that they have achieved this.


    And how would you make ejection seat work with bulletproof glass may i ask Very Happy

    Was that feature not first introduced in the Ka-50?
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    Benya

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Benya on Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:11 am

    Militarov wrote:And how would you make ejection seat work with bulletproof glass may i ask Very Happy

    It is possible with the use of explosive bolts, the same ones that blow off the rotor blades in case of emergency, and I think that the same mechanism can be used to blow away the canopy.

    Cyrus the great wrote:Why is the Ka-52 the only Russian attack helicopter without bullet-proof glass?

    Are you sure about that? Bulletproof canopy glass is pretty much a must to have for today's combat helos, so why would be the Ka-52 an exception?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:55 pm

    It's been said before by others, but I really do think that the GSh-23 would be a great weapon to replace the 2a42 in both the Ka-52 and the Mi-28. 1000+ 23×115mm rounds would be better than having 460 30×165mm in the Ka-52.

    I agree... the high velocity of the 30 x 165mm rounds is not really needed and vastly more ammo could be carried with the smaller round.

    The internal load on the Kamov would be easier to increase capacity, while for the Mi-28 perhaps lower hull mounted long boxes with belted ammo inside could be fitted to carry a large amount of ammo for the nose mounted turret.

    The smaller lighter gun with much lower recoil would offer less flight drag and would be more accurate in longer bursts, yet its heavy projectile would offer effective HE performance against most soft ground targets.

    Why is the Ka-52 the only Russian attack helicopter without bullet-proof glass?

    The curved glass is not bullet proof... neither is the curved cockpit on the top of the pilot and gunners positions on the Hind.

    I don't know of any curved glass arrangements that are bullet resistant.


    It is possible with the use of explosive bolts, the same ones that blow off the rotor blades in case of emergency, and I think that the same mechanism can be used to blow away the canopy.

    They used to blow off the whole canopy but it turned out rather faster to just shatter the upper glass surface to eject through the canopy. If you look closely the top glass of the Ka-52 has a zigzag of opaque (not see through) material... that is actually explosive to shatter the material so the crewman can eject through.

    Would not work with bullet resistant transparencies...

    Are you sure about that? Bulletproof canopy glass is pretty much a must to have for today's combat helos, so why would be the Ka-52 an exception?

    The screen fronts are 23mm cannon shell resistant... the curved top canopy is not bullet resistant.

    BTW, there is no such thing as bullet proof.


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    Cheetah

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Cheetah Yesterday at 9:26 pm

    Oh, my



    I suppose that pilot was in for a scolding when he landed

    Edit:
    Allow me to be the cynical bastard and ask what version of the S-8 that Ka was using. There was video of the aftermath hosted on RT and it looked to me as if there was minimal shrapnel damage to the surroundings, so I am inclined to say it was the HEAT variant, the S-8KO or some such. If that were the case, I'd say the people on the ground ought to buy a lotto ticket. If it were a fragmentation variant, however, I'd question the rocket's abilities since, supposedly, there were no deaths.
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    franco

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  franco Yesterday at 11:12 pm

    Was not there an incident a few years back out in the Eastern district with a S7 self firing causing a Su-25 plane accident? Correct me if I'm wrong.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  PapaDragon Today at 12:30 am

    Definitely HEAT rockets, anything with shrapnel and there would be lots of corpses

    Apparently it was FCS malfunction, pilot activated weapon but it sent signal for rockets to launch

    Looking at that impact zone gives you appreciation for destructive potential for these rockets, just little puff on launcher and WROOOM on the ground split second later...
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    Cheetah

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Cheetah Today at 3:24 am

    franco wrote:Was not there an incident a few years back out in the Eastern district with a S7 self firing causing a Su-25 plane accident? Correct me if I'm wrong.  
    I assume you mean S-8 or some other rocket from the S- family? Not to my memory

    Though, one of the notable incidents of the Su-25 stated on wikipedia talks about an aircraft exploding in mid-air back in 2008, apparently due to a wing-man's friendly fire.
    Perhaps that is the one you're thinking of?

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