Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Share
    avatar
    galicije83

    Posts : 39
    Points : 41
    Join date : 2015-04-30
    Age : 37
    Location : Novi Sad, Serbia

    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  galicije83 on Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:51 pm

    Or Russians used latest D version of ataka missile with range of 10kms....
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10215
    Points : 10703
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  George1 on Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:27 am

    Another use of Vikhr-1 missiles from Ka-52 helicopters in Syria



    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov

    avatar
    medo

    Posts : 3188
    Points : 3278
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:03 pm

    George1 wrote:Another use of Vikhr-1 missiles from Ka-52 helicopters in Syria


    Night launch from 7,5 km distance.
    avatar
    Militarov

    Posts : 5517
    Points : 5562
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Militarov on Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:21 pm

    George1 wrote:Another use of Vikhr-1 missiles from Ka-52 helicopters in Syria


    I am really wondering is it sensor resolution to be blamed, or export compression, but that FLIR is so grainy my eyes hurt.
    avatar
    medo

    Posts : 3188
    Points : 3278
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:55 pm

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t1093p275-ka-52-in-russian-air-force

    In Voenaya priemka video about Ka-52, FLIR and TV picture on pilots LCD displays was christal clear and quality of picture is not reduced by zooming. By the pictures given from Werewolf, similar bad resolution have low level light TV. Could be, that RuAF intentionally give bad resolution LLLTV night attack video instead of FLIR, that we could not see real capabilities of russian FLIR camera. But if LLLTV could still attack targets at 8 km distance in the night, it is still great as LLLTV could be a back up for FLIR camera. This mean two night channels, II and TI and we could add here radar as well.
    avatar
    hoom

    Posts : 522
    Points : 522
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  hoom on Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:18 am

    In training a Ka-52 damaged itself shooting the gun http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2657147.html


    Dunno how that happens, I'd assumed there was a solid angle limit on the gun to prevent that.
    avatar
    archangelski

    Posts : 439
    Points : 462
    Join date : 2015-04-25

    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  archangelski on Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:57 am

    hoom wrote:In training a Ka-52 damaged itself shooting the gun

    Dunno how that happens, I'd assumed there was a solid angle limit on the gun to prevent that.

    Shell malfunction ??

    marat

    Posts : 151
    Points : 153
    Join date : 2015-04-26

    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  marat on Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:34 pm

    His rotor lack one blade that couldnt be from his shell.
    avatar
    hoom

    Posts : 522
    Points : 522
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  hoom on Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:01 pm

    Shell malfunction ??
    From the wide shot I thought it might have been an early detonation but look at the closeup one, you can see the scrape trail of the shell hitting at low angle before it digs in at the panel (presumably then explodes forward of the radome causing the shrapnel damage)
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 774
    Points : 776
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Isos on Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:50 pm

    What is the detector on the side ? President S ?
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16281
    Points : 16912
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:25 pm

    Dunno how that happens, I'd assumed there was a solid angle limit on the gun to prevent that.

    Perhaps the gun in the Ka-52 is the same as the Ka-50 with the same angles of movement despite the larger nose in the Ka-52...

    From the wide shot I thought it might have been an early detonation but look at the closeup one, you can see the scrape trail of the shell hitting at low angle before it digs in at the panel (presumably then explodes forward of the radome causing the shrapnel damage)

    The fuse on the 30mm shells has an arming delay so it would not explode immediately when it hit the fuselage side...



    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    hoom

    Posts : 522
    Points : 522
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  hoom on Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:07 pm

    I meant some kind of fuse failure so it detonated in the air next to the radome without hitting anything -> shrapnel damage.

    Perhaps the gun in the Ka-52 is the same as the Ka-50 with the same angles of movement despite the larger nose in the Ka-52...
    That seems like an unlikely engineering fail.
    I'm thinking that during a burst the recoil can cause it to bounce a bit past the angle limit or maybe bad adjustment by ground-crew?
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16281
    Points : 16912
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:54 am

    The damage is limited to a very small area, which suggests to me the round was not that close when it exploded.

    If the fuse had failed I would expect there would have been no explosion at all.

    The minimal fragment damage suggests the delay on the fuse worked as advertised and detonated the round well clear of the helo.. the shell fragments would mainly go sideways and forward, so the limited damage suggests parts of the round blown backwards were to blame for the damage.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16281
    Points : 16912
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:57 am

    I am really wondering is it sensor resolution to be blamed, or export compression, but that FLIR is so grainy my eyes hurt.

    A recent news article on Sputnik mentioned they were improving their helos based on experience in Syria and that one of the things they were improving was to clarity and range of optics fitted to attack aircraft.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    hoom

    Posts : 522
    Points : 522
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  hoom on Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:06 am

    Via Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/comments/6hljrl/russian_ka52_helicopter_shots_himself_location/
    Apparently the Egyptian Ka-52s have a bracket to prevent this

    So I guess that will start showing up on Russian birds soon™
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16281
    Points : 16912
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:33 am

    Bracket?

    All I see inside that red drawn circle is the fold down step to the left and a handle to the right to help the crew to get on board the aircraft...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16281
    Points : 16912
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:39 am

    Considering the amount of time this design has been tested I was reading through the stupid comments on the link posted above about it being made of Balsa wood and it made me think... considering it role perhaps they were testing APDS rounds.. with rifling the sabots would shed rather rapidly and could have made the slicing damage without the gun being able to angle far enough to hit the fuselage...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10215
    Points : 10703
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  George1 on Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:18 pm

    Russia’s Alligator attack helicopter’s land version to get folding blades

    The helicopter’s modernization has already begun

    MOSCOW, July 10. /TASS/. The land version of the Kamov Ka-52 Alligator (NATO reporting name: Hokum-B) reconnaissance/attack helicopter is expected to get folding blades as part of its upgrade, Russian Helicopters Group, part of Russia’s state hi-tech corporation Rostec, told TASS on Monday.

    "As the technique of folding blades has been mastered, a possibility is being considered to use this technology also in the manufacture of the land version of this helicopter’s modification," the Russian Helicopters press office said.

    The helicopter’s modernization has already begun. This innovation will make it possible to keep this helicopter at hangars, which gives the Alligator’s land version a fundamental advantage, the press office said.

    Russian Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov earlier said that Ka-52 Alligator helicopters could be modernized considering the experience of their combat use in Syria.

    According to the deputy defense minister, the Ka-52 has proved its worth in combat operations in Syria.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/955572


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov

    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16281
    Points : 16912
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:08 am

    And would mean further standardisation between the two types... which is a good thing.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Cyrus the great

    Posts : 269
    Points : 279
    Join date : 2015-06-12

    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Cyrus the great on Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:59 am

    It's been said  before by others, but I really do think that the GSh-23 would be a great weapon to replace the 2a42 in both the Ka-52 and the Mi-28. 1000+ 23×115mm rounds would be better than having 460 30×165mm in the Ka-52.  

    The obvious downside is that the GSh-23 has an effective range of 1200-1500m against ground targets whereas the 2a42 has an effective range of 4km - more than 2x the range. The GSh-23 should have its rate of fire significantly reduced down to 800 rounds a minute.

    Some questions:

    Why is the Ka-52 the only Russian attack helicopter without bullet-proof glass?

    Has Kamov resolved the vibration issues that prevented the placement of the mast-mounted CM radar? I read somewhere that they have achieved this.

    avatar
    Militarov

    Posts : 5517
    Points : 5562
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Militarov on Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:44 am

    Cyrus the great wrote:It's been said  before by others, but I really do think that the GSh-23 would be a great weapon to replace the 2a42 in both the Ka-52 and the Mi-28. 1000+ 23×115mm rounds would be better than having 460 30×165mm in the Ka-52.  

    The obvious downside is that the GSh-23 has an effective range of 1200-1500m against ground targets whereas the 2a42 has an effective range of 4km - more than 2x the range. The GSh-23 should have its rate of fire significantly reduced down to 800 rounds a minute.

    Some questions:

    Why is the Ka-52 the only Russian attack helicopter without bullet-proof glass?

    Has Kamov resolved the vibration issues that prevented the placement of the mast-mounted CM radar? I read somewhere that they have achieved this.


    And how would you make ejection seat work with bulletproof glass may i ask Very Happy

    Cyrus the great

    Posts : 269
    Points : 279
    Join date : 2015-06-12

    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Cyrus the great on Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:50 am

    Militarov wrote:
    Cyrus the great wrote:It's been said  before by others, but I really do think that the GSh-23 would be a great weapon to replace the 2a42 in both the Ka-52 and the Mi-28. 1000+ 23×115mm rounds would be better than having 460 30×165mm in the Ka-52.  

    The obvious downside is that the GSh-23 has an effective range of 1200-1500m against ground targets whereas the 2a42 has an effective range of 4km - more than 2x the range. The GSh-23 should have its rate of fire significantly reduced down to 800 rounds a minute.

    Some questions:

    Why is the Ka-52 the only Russian attack helicopter without bullet-proof glass?

    Has Kamov resolved the vibration issues that prevented the placement of the mast-mounted CM radar? I read somewhere that they have achieved this.


    And how would you make ejection seat work with bulletproof glass may i ask Very Happy

    Was that feature not first introduced in the Ka-50?
    avatar
    Benya

    Posts : 486
    Points : 490
    Join date : 2016-06-05
    Location : Budapest, Hungary

    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Benya on Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:11 am

    Militarov wrote:And how would you make ejection seat work with bulletproof glass may i ask Very Happy

    It is possible with the use of explosive bolts, the same ones that blow off the rotor blades in case of emergency, and I think that the same mechanism can be used to blow away the canopy.

    Cyrus the great wrote:Why is the Ka-52 the only Russian attack helicopter without bullet-proof glass?

    Are you sure about that? Bulletproof canopy glass is pretty much a must to have for today's combat helos, so why would be the Ka-52 an exception?
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16281
    Points : 16912
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:55 pm

    It's been said before by others, but I really do think that the GSh-23 would be a great weapon to replace the 2a42 in both the Ka-52 and the Mi-28. 1000+ 23×115mm rounds would be better than having 460 30×165mm in the Ka-52.

    I agree... the high velocity of the 30 x 165mm rounds is not really needed and vastly more ammo could be carried with the smaller round.

    The internal load on the Kamov would be easier to increase capacity, while for the Mi-28 perhaps lower hull mounted long boxes with belted ammo inside could be fitted to carry a large amount of ammo for the nose mounted turret.

    The smaller lighter gun with much lower recoil would offer less flight drag and would be more accurate in longer bursts, yet its heavy projectile would offer effective HE performance against most soft ground targets.

    Why is the Ka-52 the only Russian attack helicopter without bullet-proof glass?

    The curved glass is not bullet proof... neither is the curved cockpit on the top of the pilot and gunners positions on the Hind.

    I don't know of any curved glass arrangements that are bullet resistant.


    It is possible with the use of explosive bolts, the same ones that blow off the rotor blades in case of emergency, and I think that the same mechanism can be used to blow away the canopy.

    They used to blow off the whole canopy but it turned out rather faster to just shatter the upper glass surface to eject through the canopy. If you look closely the top glass of the Ka-52 has a zigzag of opaque (not see through) material... that is actually explosive to shatter the material so the crewman can eject through.

    Would not work with bullet resistant transparencies...

    Are you sure about that? Bulletproof canopy glass is pretty much a must to have for today's combat helos, so why would be the Ka-52 an exception?

    The screen fronts are 23mm cannon shell resistant... the curved top canopy is not bullet resistant.

    BTW, there is no such thing as bullet proof.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Sponsored content

    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:27 pm