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    Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

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    ult

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  ult on Sun Jul 03, 2016 12:39 am

    Luq man wrote:
    Yes i see but I have never seen the Ka-52 fly combat missions with Vikhr missiles pale

    My best guess is they are being stockpiled right now and are deemed too valuable to waste in Syria. We know that there was a contract, and that it has been completed. And from the logistics point of view it makes more sense to use Ataka in Syria, as all 4 types of combat helos deployed there could use those.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Jul 03, 2016 8:05 am

    The last batch of Vikhr's was purchased prior to 2002 and after that only recently in 2015/2016 started back the production, so the storages are low and they are not starting to deplete them while the Low production is running up just now.

    They still have a shit load of Shturms and Atakas.
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    George1

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  George1 on Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:59 am

    Tests of Ka-52 with the sighting of the new optical-electronic system ECO-52



    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2066446.html


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    George1

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  George1 on Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:23 am

    The composition of the 55th helicopter regiment Korenovsk received four new combat helicopters Ka-52



    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2299148.html


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    George1

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  George1 on Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:55 pm

    Army's contract for Ka-52 'Alligator' helicopters to continue till 2020

    The reconnaissance and attack helicopter Ka-52 Alligator is meant for destroying tanks, armored and non-armored vehicles, manpower, helicopters and other aircraft of the enemy

    MOSCOW, December 7. /TASS/. The current contract of the Helicopters of Russia holding company (an affiliate of Rostec corporation) for supplying Ka-52 Alligator helicopters to the Russian armed forces will be effective till 2020.

    "For the past six years our main task has been to timely provide Ka-52 Alligator helicopters under a government contract, which will remain effective till 2020. Diligent and well-tuned operation of the whole labor staff of the Progress plant has confirmed our status of a reliable provider of top quality combat aviation technologies," the Helicopters of Russia’s press-service quotes the managing director of the Progress Arsenyev Aviation Company (an affiliate of Helicopters of Russia), Yuri Denisenko, as saying.

    The holding company and the Defense Ministry concluded a contract for 140 helicopters in 2011.


    The reconnaissance and attack helicopter Ka-52 Alligator is meant for destroying tanks, armored and non-armored vehicles, manpower, helicopters and other aircraft of the enemy on the front line and beyond it within a tactical range in any weather round the clock.

    The helicopter is equipped with advanced avionics and powerful weapons that can be reconfigured for various combat tasks. Also, the Ka-52 helicopter boasts stealth capabilities and radio-electronic protection means that disperse or distort the heat trail and active protection means.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/917306


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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  KiloGolf on Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:24 pm

    George1 wrote:Army's contract for Ka-52 'Alligator' helicopters to continue till 2020

    The holding company and the Defense Ministry concluded a contract for 140 helicopters in 2011.

    9 years for 140 choppers isn't exactly great. But it's better than nothing.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Militarov on Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:03 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    George1 wrote:Army's contract for Ka-52 'Alligator' helicopters to continue till 2020

    The holding company and the Defense Ministry concluded a contract for 140 helicopters in 2011.

    9 years for 140 choppers isn't exactly great. But it's better than nothing.

    Well its not that horrible, they also contracted Mi-28s at the same time so if you look at global scale its not all that bad. Could be and should be better tho but its okay. They still have some resources in Mi-24Ps to burn.

    Ned86

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Ned86 on Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:42 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:

    9 years for 140 choppers isn't exactly great. But it's better than nothing.

    Quite opposite, this is more than enough for machine like Ka-52...especially when combine that with almost 100 Mi-28N in service and 30+ new Mi-35M already deliver with unknown number of Mi-28N and Mi-35M still coming to service by 2020.

    Regarding helicopter fleet, Russia is probably doing it the best with most fleet already replenished with Ka-52, Mi-28N, Mi-35, Mi-26T and Mi-8.  Until 2005 their only attack helicopter was Mi-24P with barely 200 in service.  

    Btw, for example since 2004 French army receive only 55 Eurocopter tigers. That means approximately 5 choppers per year.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  KiloGolf on Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:08 pm

    Ned86 wrote:Btw, for example since 2004 French army receive only 55 Eurocopter tigers. That means approximately 5 choppers per year.

    Well that's a bad example anyways. Tiger is a disaster.
    But 2011 to 2020 is the period you'd expect Ka-52 to be in ramped-up full production. But maybe this is done on-purpose so that people keep their jobs. The problem is they won't have enough of them when they need them.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:38 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Ned86 wrote:Btw, for example since 2004 French army receive only 55 Eurocopter tigers. That means approximately 5 choppers per year.

    Well that's a bad example anyways. Tiger is a disaster.
    But 2011 to 2020 is the period you'd expect Ka-52 to be in ramped-up full production. But maybe this is done on-purpose so that people keep their jobs. The problem is they won't have enough of them when they need them.

    that has been the entire Russian procurement system. 1 year - order 12 to 50 of something. Complete, move on and purchase another 12 - 50 so that there is continuous jobs, they have a feel for the system and find glitches, and figure out its importance.

    Same thing with Su-34 in recent past.

    They also have been procuring Mi-35M and upgrades to other helicopters.

    Europe and others have usually a single platform. Russia has multiple. Personally, I always felt that having just one platform, is ideal for logistics and ease of introduction, making it possible for larger procurement.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Werewolf on Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:33 pm

    140 KA-52/K's in 9 years is more than enough the entire pool is about that size. Ka-52 is a command helicopters, coordinating other attack helicopters. Why would you want more? It is like saying i need more generals and high officers on the battlefield instead of actual fighting soldieres.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  KiloGolf on Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:36 pm

    Werewolf wrote:140 KA-52/K's in 9 years is more than enough the entire pool is about that size. Ka-52 is a command helicopters, coordinating other attack helicopters. Why would you want more? It is like saying i need more generals and high officers on the battlefield instead of actual fighting soldieres.

    The numbers (incl. Mi 35M and Mi 28N), if one accounts a decade of losses, although on the low side for a country of the size of Russia, was not the criticism. The production rates was. But then again, like in the states, this is also a jobs program. So the longer it drags the happier everyone is.
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    franco

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  franco on Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:17 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:140 KA-52/K's in 9 years is more than enough the entire pool is about that size. Ka-52 is a command helicopters, coordinating other attack helicopters. Why would you want more? It is like saying i need more generals and high officers on the battlefield instead of actual fighting soldieres.

    The numbers (incl. Mi 35M and Mi 28N), if one accounts a decade of losses, although on the low side for a country of the size of Russia, was not the criticism. The production rates was. But then again, like in the states, this is also a jobs program. So the longer it drags the happier everyone is.

    Plans are for ~450 attack helicopters by the end of 2020. Known orders to date are 146 Ka-52, 32 Ka-52K, 49 Mil-35M, 97 Mil-28N, 24 Mil-28UB and 1 Mil-28NM for testing. That leaves about 100 more to get ordered, there will be more Mil-28NM for sure plus the 49 Mil-35M's were delivered by end of 2014 and have noticed mentions of unknown numbers of Mil-35M's being delivered in both 2015 and 2016.
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    hoom

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  hoom on Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:25 am

    Ka-52 doin' some looow flyin' in Syria
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  TheArmenian on Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:21 am

    hoom wrote:Ka-52 doin' some looow flyin' in Syria

    here is the video:

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    GarryB

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:19 am

    Producing thousands of helos in two or three years would be stupid... what are they going to do next after the two years are up and the Russian military don't need any more helos?

    the fact is that when both aircraft started production they were pretty incomplete immature designs that needed a lot of work.

    You could argue that the Mi-28 has not become a capable aircraft until the current version (Mi-28NM) and so being able to get some early models into service and test them and use them has helped in the further design and upgrade of the system.

    Very much the same could be said regarding the Ka-52 with plenty of improvements to come.

    Doing it this way means if WWII had broken out today when the wicked witch of the west being reelected (ie theoretical Clinton presidency) they would not have had enough attack helos for a conventional war... but who cares... the conventional war would likely not last long anyway and its result immaterial.

    Doing it this way means the aircraft can be brought into service gradually with more training and preparation for pilots and ground crews likely improving familiarity and reducing accidents.

    In terms of the MIC it gave them more time to develop improvements and implement them.

    It also means more time for weapons and developing drones to operate with the new aircraft.

    Better stability of production is more important than a rapid expensive build up for a non existent confrontation for a non event.


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    George1

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  George1 on Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:27 pm

    Some photos of pilots training with Ka-52 at the 55th helicopter regiment in Korenovsk

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2402129.html


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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  George1 on Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:01 pm

    Ka-52 in Syria with anti-tank guided missiles "Vikhr-1" of complex 9K121M "Vikhr-M"



    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2443768.html




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    medo

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:26 am

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    George1

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  George1 on Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:10 pm

    Russia's Progress Arsenyev aviation company will deliver 12 Ka-52 attack helicopters to the Russian Defense Ministry as part of state orders this year, Deputy Defense Minister Yuriy Borisov said Tuesday.

    https://sputniknews.com/military/201703071051328411-ka52-helicopters-delivery/


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    Cyrus the great

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Cyrus the great on Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:42 am


    How much more expensive is the Ka-52 to the new Mi-28NM?

    ult

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  ult on Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:54 am

    Video of Ka-52's and Vikhr-1 from Syria.

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    GarryB

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:06 am

    The Kamov design bureau did offer a two seat tandem for Turkey... they even called it the Erdogan.

    I seem to remember it had an articulated cannon mount so it could be fired from the side normal position but could also be rotated down like an under nose weapon with a better field of fire.

    Turkey was not interested of course so nothing really became of it AFAIK.

    Very much Turkeys loss as I think it would have been a very powerful aircraft.

    Originally the KA-50 was made a single seat helo because the job of the pilot was rather simplified and the fire control system has auto targeting so you could operate it like a fighter plane... this means with two crew you have two aircraft and twice the fire power.

    Only problem was the Russian military was starting to demand all weather day and night capability and no matter how good your electronics and electro optics are flying at night is a full time job so they needed two crew.

    They chose the side by side arrangement because of the better communications between the crew and to minimise the increase in weight caused by the larger crew compartment and extra armour.



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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:24 am

    How much more expensive is the Ka-52 to the new Mi-28NM?

    No idea to be honest.

    The naval Ka-52K will have an AESA radar which will push up the cost. even the standard Ka-52 will have MMW radar so it likely isn't cheap either.


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    Cyrus the great

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Cyrus the great on Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:52 am

    GarryB wrote:The Kamov design bureau did offer a two seat tandem for Turkey... they even called it the Erdogan.

    I seem to remember it had an articulated cannon mount so it could be fired from the side normal position but could also be rotated down like an under nose weapon with a better field of fire.

    Turkey was not interested of course so nothing really became of it AFAIK.

    Very much Turkeys loss as I think it would have been a very powerful aircraft.

    Originally the KA-50 was made a single seat helo because the job of the pilot was rather simplified  and the fire control system has auto targeting so you could operate it like a fighter plane... this means with two crew you have two aircraft and twice the fire power.

    Only problem was the Russian military was starting to demand all weather day and night capability and no matter how good your electronics and electro optics are flying at night is a full time job so they needed two crew.

    They chose the side by side arrangement because of the better communications between the crew and to minimise the increase in weight caused by the larger crew compartment and extra armour.






    Ka-50 Erdogan



    The Erdogan variant suffered the same weakness of all Western attack helicopters... it had far too much glass and I think weight considerations were the culprit. The Erdogan variant could not maintain the same profile of the Ka-50 Havoc. The recent metallurgical advances that have produced a metal as strong as titanium but 13% lighter than steel at 1/10th the cost of titanium, could be utilized to create a Ka-50 variant with a two seater stepped cockpit without any increase in weight; we could create such a Ka-50 variant weighing 6500 kg - which would increase performance and provide superior protection levels to the Mi-28. Other promising metals have the strength of titanium but with the density of aluminum.

    Question: are vibration issues the primary reason why a mast-mounted radar has not been incorporated into the Ka-52? Or is it because a mast-mounted radar mechanically impedes or compromises the performance of the coaxial rotors? I think the longbow has a weight of 130 kg and the Mi-28 has a radar at 140 kg. Would a 50 kg mast-mounted radar be suitable for the Ka-52?

    Vibration can apparently be removed in helicopters. Source: http://aviationweek.com/defense/rotorcraft-vibration-can-be-almost-eliminated

    The near complete elimination of vibration could enable the use of mast-mounted radars on Kamov variants.


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