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    Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

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    medo
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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:49 pm

    For operating anti-radar missiles Ka-52 doesn't need radar, but proper RWR detectors, which could analyze enemy radar frequency and program anti-radar missile with needed data. If army and naval Ka-52 have the same ESM suite with same RWR detectors, than both could use the same missiles.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:27 pm

    Quite true, but my point is that the Naval Ka-52 will also carry the anti ship version of the Kh-31 as its extra range will make the helo safer in combat against patrol and similar sized vessels, so carrying the anti radiation version makes more sense.

    For the Army helicopter, the other large targets it might engage like bridges or bunkers will most likely be engaged with laser guided AS-10s so it probably makes sense to use Kh-25MP and other ARM versions of that missile for any radar threats too.

    The main problems will be the low altitude and low speed launch which will reduce the max range of any weapon launched from these helos.

    For the naval aircraft that is already carrying antiship Kh-31s it would certainly make sense in the flat open sea environment to carry long range ARMs to improve safety... in combat against a patrol craft or corvette armed with MANPADS moat missiles will do the trick including Hermes in terms of range, but in terms of payload you would need something like Kh-25 for warhead mass to do some serious damage... in many ways the Kh-25 in its anti radiation or the new TV or IIR guided models is very much like a Maverick in terms of performance.

    The Kh-38 is in development and may replace the Kh-25 in some roles but it is a much larger and heavier missile that is not so suitable for small light aircraft including helos.

    Buying the TV and IIR guided versions of the Kh-25 would greatly improve the firepower of the lighter aircraft able to carry them and as an example would greatly improve the performance of the Su-25SM in terms of its ability to hit point targets with precision at standoff ranges.

    Hermes offers another capability with 1/3rd the warhead weight and half the range but carried in bundles of 8 missiles per pylon.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  TR1 on Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:49 am

    Ka-52 crashed. Sad Pilot died, RIP.

    Hopefully not one of the newest birds.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:04 am

    It seems the other crewman died later in hospital...

    RIP to the two crew. Sad

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:17 pm

    Did they try to use ejection seats?

    RIP to the pilots. Sad


    Last edited by medo on Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

    medo
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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:00 pm

    http://www.ria.ru/inquest/20120313/593438649.html

    If I understand this article correctly, than emergency system was off in time of crash. By the picture they show, it seems to be gray helicopter, so it could be one of new four helicopters or yellow 51, which was also in gray camo, but was pre-series one.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:07 pm

    It is a weird feeling... on the one hand I am sad they died but on the other I am jealous that their job was to fly around in Ka-52s...

    Regarding ejection seats plenty of pilots have been killed in aircraft fitted with ejection seats, it really is too soon to speculate with little to no information available.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Austin on Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:38 am

    RIP to both the pilots and condolence to their families cry

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Austin on Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:39 am

    Air Forces Monthly March 2012 issue ( via AndyB/BRF )

    Ka-52 AM Co-axial Alligator


    http://www.mediafire.com/?ntn8wauf2u9t5z1

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:42 am

    Interesting that the Atakas have been converted to laser beam riding... perhaps that is the type of ATAKA missile the BMPT is to use as it would only require a laser beam riding lasing system to use rather than the 35 GHz thimble nose on the Mi-28 series to guide it.

    Bit of a shame they are not going ahead with the above rotor radar antenna... it might have vibration problems but it also gets the best all round view...

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:16 pm



    First clear picture of Arbalet radar installed in Ka-52 helicopter.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  TR1 on Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:09 pm

    Nice. That is a pre-production variant (see the optic ball, it is black) but installation should be similar to serials.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:56 pm

    You are correct, this Ka-52 could be yellow 51, which is also gray. Any more news, which Ka-52 crashed some time ago? One of the new or one of pre-serial ones?

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  TheArmenian on Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:37 pm

    medo wrote:You are correct, this Ka-52 could be yellow 51, which is also gray. Any more news, which Ka-52 crashed some time ago? One of the new or one of pre-serial ones?

    One of the newer ones with Bort number 99.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:28 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:
    medo wrote:You are correct, this Ka-52 could be yellow 51, which is also gray. Any more news, which Ka-52 crashed some time ago? One of the new or one of pre-serial ones?

    One of the newer ones with Bort number 99.

    B/n 99 was equipped with Arbalet radar, which have terrain following mode to fly low in any weather. I wander if they fly too low, that they have no chance to deal with sudden push of air down or they don't use any of these equipment, because they are near airbase. After all Ka-52 is well equipped for flying in such conditions (radar, EO sensors, radio altimeter, GPS/GLONASS, etc).

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  George1 on Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:23 am

    Kamov vs. Mil: prospects for Russian chopper fleet

    By the end of this year, Russia’s Far East air base of Chernigovka will be fully reequipped with new Mi-8AMTSh and Ka-52 attack choppers that will replace the obsolete Mi-8s and Mi-24s. Designed as a special forces' support helicopter, the Ka-52 is gradually growing to become the army’s main attack gunship.

    Plans to launch Ka-52 batch production were announced as early as in 2006. Under the modernization initiative, Ka-52s were to make up only a small portion of the 300 attack helicopters – just several squadrons of 70 to 80 choppers – while the Mi-28N was to act as the air forces’ workhorse.

    This situation has changed. Russia’s air forces and naval aviation units have already received the first batch of 80 to 90 attack helicopters out of some 400 choppers that are to join the nation’s air fleet by 2020, with some 100 Mi-28Hs, about 50 Mi-35s (the latest version of the Mi-24) and 140 Ka-52s still pending. Considering that the navy aviation is also to be outfitted with some 80 Ka-52 helicopters, the number of these choppers, which are slated to enter the Russian military fleet, can exceed 200 units, putting the Ka-52 on par with the Mi-28.

    The Russian army has been on the quest to build its main gunship since the Soviet times (when it didn’t yet merge with the air forces), long before either Mi-28 or Ka-50 tried their wings in 1982. Both design bureaus presented plausible arguments to tip the scales toward their jet. At the end of the 1980s, the Kamov bureau finally emerged as the winner only to see military modernization stalled after the Soviet collapse. Just a few years before the country’s break-up, the rival Mil design bureau showed off its advanced Mi-28A version with a better sighting and navigation system and started developing its new Mi-28N all-weather attack helicopter that exceeded the original Kamov aircraft in its equipment capabilities.

    In its turn, the Kamov design bureau, whose one-seat Ka-50 chopper critics slammed it for being too small for the pilot to simultaneously navigate and operate its weapons, came up with a two-seat variant, the Ka-52, which entered the 2006-2015 State Arms Program and later made it into its 2011-2020 edition.

    Many military mavens believe that, having opted for both Ka-52 and Mi-28, the modern Russia has repeated the mistake the Soviet defense ministry made when it ordered the production of several different kinds of weapons aimed at fulfilling one and the same task. Still, there are quite a few arguments to justify this choice.

    First and foremost, the Ka-52 and Mi-28 have a different range of capabilities. The Ka-52 has shown good performance in the mountainous terrain and at sea, making it a perfect onboard aircraft for “Mistral” warships, whereas the Mi-28N with its thicker armor and a top-mounted radar station is better suited for the European Theatre of Operations and its advanced anti-missile shield.

    Despite all their external distinctions, the two helicopters have quite a lot in common, starting from their power plants and armament, which simplifies their simultaneous maintenance.

    Russia’s current political and economic situation is also playing in the hand of the Ka-52, keeping afloat its producer, the Arsenyevsk Helicopter Plant, which is one of the few high-tech enterprises of Russia’s Primorye region.

    In fact, Russia’s arms production remains its only industry that has a competitive advantage at the international level and has virtually set the benchmark for the rest of the world. Both the Ka-52 and Mi-28 are considered some of the best choppers worldwide, so it was only natural to seek for a compromise between the two of them.
    The need to reequip the Russian military has become increasingly urgent after the 20 post-Soviet years effectively undermined the nation’s military capability. Today, neither the Rostvertol helicopter plant, the Mi-28 producer, nor the Ka-52 manufacturer, Progress, has enough production capacities to build large numbers of high-quality choppers. In this situation, putting all eggs in one basket could postpone the aviation revamp again.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:47 am

    At the end of the day the Mi-28N was chosen as the new Army attack helo.

    The problem is that the Mi-28N is not ready and wont be till about 2015 when it becomes the Mi-28M.

    In the mean time make both... they are different enough to both be useful, yet similar enough to not be a logistics nightmare to operate both.

    Same gun, same engines, largely the same weapons, and likely the same EOs systems.

    The different radar arrangements offer differing capabilities.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:11 pm



    New picture from Torzhok center. Nice to see, that older yellow 91 is now equipped with MAWS and DIRCM balls and I hope it also got Arbalet radar to be fully equipped now.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Austin on Mon May 21, 2012 7:27 am

    Nice Interview and Updates on Ka-52 Radar Smile

    "Alligator" was more farsighted and accurate

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Mon May 21, 2012 4:33 pm

    Austin wrote:Nice Interview and Updates on Ka-52 Radar Smile

    "Alligator" was more farsighted and accurate

    Good article. New helicopters will be fully equipped.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  TR1 on Fri May 25, 2012 9:53 pm

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/238671.html

    New Ka-52 @ Progress.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Austin on Sat May 26, 2012 5:06 am

    Nice phots , The Weapons Pylon are quite big as big as wings of a small jet trainer and so are the rear wings ..I think besides the rotor these huge wings account for some of the lift capability for Ka-52 , consequently they can fly much higher than Mi-28.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Sat May 26, 2012 6:12 am

    The altitude performance advantage of the coaxial design largely comes from the main rotor configuration which maximises lift without any power loss to a tail rotor assembly.

    Lack of lift might not be a limiting factor for high altitude flight on some conventional helos... lack of directional control because of the thin airs effect on the performance of the tail rotor.

    Of course that is critical in the hover ceiling of a helo but less important with a helo in forward flight where the air flowing over the surface of the aircraft help to keep the nose pointed forward.

    Of course there are other factors too... the Mi-38 has very good altitude capabilities and it has a conventional main and tail rotor arrangement.

    I would add that the Ka-50 has better high altitude performance than the heavier Ka-52 despite having smaller wings.

    As was found on the original models of the Hind that large wings greatly reduce the load on the rotor disk during forward flight, but the cost is reducing lift in the hover by blocking some of the rotor downwash.

    It was decided that the lift was of more value than the penalty in the hover as the helo spends most of its time in forward flight.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Sat May 26, 2012 8:47 am

    Interesting they are working on a new radar set for the Mi-28MN...

    ..this would be interesting too:

    http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?rurl=translate.google.com&tl=en&u=http://vpk.name/news/69546_rossiiskie_voennyie_obzavedutsya_shlemami_virtualnoi_realnosti.html&usg=ALkJrhjVQkwwFaJ-fYZQ0Q2m5j7iWP7Y5w

    VR optics would be the ideal solution to the problem of bad situation awareness from either sitting down in the hull of a vehicle instead of high up in the turret, or indeed sitting behind small heavily armoured windows.

    This is interesting too:

    http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?rurl=translate.google.com&tl=en&u=http://vpk.name/news/68279_mai_v_2012_godu_zavershit_razrabotku_novoi_brls.html&usg=ALkJrhjrLN2P534fGqfEV4QRzo-wvcj0TQ



    Regarding the usefulness of a dual band radar I think this says it all:

    The mass of the dual-band radar will be no more than 55-60 pounds and will have a range of actions depending on the task - from 0.2 to 28 km in the Ka-band and up to 160 km in the X-band. It is possible to supply a single-band radar in the form. In this mass of Ka-band module is about 23 kg, and with X-band module - no more than 35 kg.

    So a 23kg MMW radar on its own able to detect ground targets out to just under 30km, which will likely equate to tank sized targets detected at 14-18km or so, and bridges and buildings at 28km because of the range limitations of mmw radar range. Add a CM wave antenna to increase the antenna mass to 35kgs and you add 360 degree 160km range view of the airspace and weather around the aircraft. Of course 160km range will be large ships and large aircraft... helicopters and fighter aircraft would be less than half that, while incoming missiles might be 8-10km range detection.

    This radar would be ideal above the main rotor of the Mi-28NM...

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Sun May 27, 2012 11:37 am

    From the front Ka-52 really remind on A-6 Intruder. Anyone know what equipment have Ka-52 in square radome on left wingpod?

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