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    Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

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    medo
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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:32 pm

    EO ball in Ka-52 is big and it also house laser guiding channel, so I think it could better work with laser guided Vikhr than with radio guided Ataka. I doubt Vikhr is bound only to Shkval and could be guided with other laser guiding complexes too.
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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:22 pm

    Vikhr is made by KBP and was probably only made in fairly small numbers for testing.

    With Hermes on the way (which is basically a Pantsir-S1 missile with a different warhead/and with terminal guidance options) I don't think they will tool up for mass production of Vikhr for the short interval till Hermes is ready.

    Hermes is a rather different missile with two stage design.
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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:41 pm

    Maybe they will not produce more Vikhr missiles, but Ka-52 could still use stocks of missiles build for Ka-50 ans Su-25TM.
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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  TheArmenian on Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:06 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    ofc the Mil guys claim their stuff is working and doing its thing while the Kamov "show birds" spend all their time on the ground.

    I tought the opposite was claimed. Kamovs flying all the time while Mi-28s are needing servicing.
    ????? dunno
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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  TR1 on Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:42 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    ofc the Mil guys claim their stuff is working and doing its thing while the Kamov "show birds" spend all their time on the ground.

    I tought the opposite was claimed. Kamovs flying all the time while Mi-28s are needing servicing.
    ????? dunno

    Read that as well. Some claims that one of the new batches of Ka-52s has barely flown at all. Where truth is remains to be seen, both helos are working up operational tempo anyways.
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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:33 am

    The Su-25T didn't enter service in any numbers and I think they built about a dozen or two Ka-50s at a very low rate so I doubt stocks are significant.

    Ka-50 and Su-25T use Shkval to guide the Vikhr and the Ka-52 doesn't have Shkval.

    The Krisantema uses laser beam riding guidance in addition to MMW radar command guidance, so when both the Ka-52 and Mi-28NM are fitted for the K they should also be able to use any stocks of Vikhr that might be left but I suspect they were pretty small and probably have been used up already in tests and exercises.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:04 am

    Anyone know, how much Ka-52 are now in service? I know for helicopters with bort numbers 51, 52, 53, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98 and 99. There would be also a squadron (12) Ka-52 in Far East, what could be 23 helicopters, so to the end of the year there could be more than 30 Ka-52.

    Now serial army Ka-52 is fully equipped, so it will be very interesting to see, what missiles it will use beside standard ATGMs (ATAKA, Vikhr and in future Hermes) and AA Igla or R-73. Ka-52 now have full ESM suite, so maybe army Ka-52 will also use Kh-31 anti radar missiles as will naval Ka-52 and it will be interesting to see which AA missiles will Arbalet radar enable to use.
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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:45 am

    I would suspect in terms of anti radiation missiles that the Ka-52 will more likely use the 300kg Kh-25 series labelled AS-12 by NATO, its range of 40km would be more in tune with threats to a Ka-52 than the 110km range 600kg Kh-31 or the new model 250km range 700kg versions.
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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:03 pm

    True, it is more reasonable to use Kh-25 anti radar missiles for Ka-52 than Kh-31, but question is still in the right place, considering that naval Ka-52 will be integrated with Ka-31 missiles. So with the same equipment army Ka-52 could use Kh-31 too. Of course not all the time, but when they face treats like SAMP/T, NASAMS or Patriot without proper air force cower, that those Ka-52 capabilities could be very wellcome.
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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  TR1 on Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:38 pm

    Never seen Ka-52 with Kh-31, but early prototype was seen with Ka-25.
    http://media.photobucket.com/image/recent/Haradrim1/ka-52-1.jpg

    Not sure if it was actually trialed with them though.
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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:02 am

    I would expect the Kh-31 would be an option, but the MMW radar sensor on the Army Hokum will not likely detect threats at more than 20-30km or so, and because it would operate low down most of the radar threats to the aircraft would be dealt with using 40km range ARMs like the Kh-25s.

    The Kh-31 could probably be carried, but its utility to a low flying aircraft would probably be quite limited.

    Regarding TR1s photo above that is the SALH Kh-25 which is known in the west as the AS-10 Karen and would be useful against targets like small bridges or bunkers where there is another platform marking the target with a laser or for the launch aircraft to mark with a laser.

    In each case the 90kg warhead of the 300-320kg missiles would be quite efficient and effective.

    For harder targets however they would have options like the Kh-29 with a 320kg HE warhead out to 40km in some models, and also the Kh-31 might be useful as well, but its warhead is about 90kgs too so effect on target is similar to the smaller Kh-25 though the range of the latter is shorter.

    For the naval Kamov of course carrying an AESA radar it will be flying at higher altitudes and higher speeds for which a Kh-31 would be of greater use.

    A mix of anti radiation and anti ship models would actually be ideal as the anti ship missile could be fired first followed by an anti radiation missile for when the targets start scanning to see where that first missile came from.
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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:49 pm

    For operating anti-radar missiles Ka-52 doesn't need radar, but proper RWR detectors, which could analyze enemy radar frequency and program anti-radar missile with needed data. If army and naval Ka-52 have the same ESM suite with same RWR detectors, than both could use the same missiles.
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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:27 pm

    Quite true, but my point is that the Naval Ka-52 will also carry the anti ship version of the Kh-31 as its extra range will make the helo safer in combat against patrol and similar sized vessels, so carrying the anti radiation version makes more sense.

    For the Army helicopter, the other large targets it might engage like bridges or bunkers will most likely be engaged with laser guided AS-10s so it probably makes sense to use Kh-25MP and other ARM versions of that missile for any radar threats too.

    The main problems will be the low altitude and low speed launch which will reduce the max range of any weapon launched from these helos.

    For the naval aircraft that is already carrying antiship Kh-31s it would certainly make sense in the flat open sea environment to carry long range ARMs to improve safety... in combat against a patrol craft or corvette armed with MANPADS moat missiles will do the trick including Hermes in terms of range, but in terms of payload you would need something like Kh-25 for warhead mass to do some serious damage... in many ways the Kh-25 in its anti radiation or the new TV or IIR guided models is very much like a Maverick in terms of performance.

    The Kh-38 is in development and may replace the Kh-25 in some roles but it is a much larger and heavier missile that is not so suitable for small light aircraft including helos.

    Buying the TV and IIR guided versions of the Kh-25 would greatly improve the firepower of the lighter aircraft able to carry them and as an example would greatly improve the performance of the Su-25SM in terms of its ability to hit point targets with precision at standoff ranges.

    Hermes offers another capability with 1/3rd the warhead weight and half the range but carried in bundles of 8 missiles per pylon.
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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  TR1 on Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:49 am

    Ka-52 crashed. Sad Pilot died, RIP.

    Hopefully not one of the newest birds.
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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:04 am

    It seems the other crewman died later in hospital...

    RIP to the two crew. Sad
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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:17 pm

    Did they try to use ejection seats?

    RIP to the pilots. Sad


    Last edited by medo on Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:00 pm

    http://www.ria.ru/inquest/20120313/593438649.html

    If I understand this article correctly, than emergency system was off in time of crash. By the picture they show, it seems to be gray helicopter, so it could be one of new four helicopters or yellow 51, which was also in gray camo, but was pre-series one.
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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:07 pm

    It is a weird feeling... on the one hand I am sad they died but on the other I am jealous that their job was to fly around in Ka-52s...

    Regarding ejection seats plenty of pilots have been killed in aircraft fitted with ejection seats, it really is too soon to speculate with little to no information available.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Austin on Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:38 am

    RIP to both the pilots and condolence to their families cry

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Austin on Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:39 am

    Air Forces Monthly March 2012 issue ( via AndyB/BRF )

    Ka-52 AM Co-axial Alligator


    http://www.mediafire.com/?ntn8wauf2u9t5z1
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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:42 am

    Interesting that the Atakas have been converted to laser beam riding... perhaps that is the type of ATAKA missile the BMPT is to use as it would only require a laser beam riding lasing system to use rather than the 35 GHz thimble nose on the Mi-28 series to guide it.

    Bit of a shame they are not going ahead with the above rotor radar antenna... it might have vibration problems but it also gets the best all round view...
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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:16 pm



    First clear picture of Arbalet radar installed in Ka-52 helicopter.
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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  TR1 on Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:09 pm

    Nice. That is a pre-production variant (see the optic ball, it is black) but installation should be similar to serials.
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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:56 pm

    You are correct, this Ka-52 could be yellow 51, which is also gray. Any more news, which Ka-52 crashed some time ago? One of the new or one of pre-serial ones?
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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  TheArmenian on Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:37 pm

    medo wrote:You are correct, this Ka-52 could be yellow 51, which is also gray. Any more news, which Ka-52 crashed some time ago? One of the new or one of pre-serial ones?

    One of the newer ones with Bort number 99.

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