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    Russian Civil Aviation: News

    TR1
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    Post  TR1 on Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:15 am

    I posted the link.

    I guess in addition to being stupid, you are illiterate.

    Superjet wikidot is up to date, and unlike main Wiki, is not edited by random morons like certain posters in this thread.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:44 am

    TR1 wrote:I posted the link.

    I guess in addition to being stupid, you are illiterate.

    Superjet wikidot is up to date, and unlike main Wiki, is not edited by random morons like certain posters in this thread.

    Instead of circle jerking with your butthurt pal, you should have posted at least one number.

    Instead you spewed vapid bile.

    Grow a brain, hater.
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    Post  TR1 on Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:52 am

    Keep making a joke of yourself.

    Oh I get it. You can't even read Russian (being the Russian wannabe stronker that you are), so you can't read the link I posted!

    Dammn. Pathetic.


    But really, if you don't know jack shit about the SSJ, do everyone a favor and shut up.
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    Post  kvs on Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:53 am

    TR1 wrote:Keep making a joke of yourself.

    Oh I get it. You can't even read Russian (being the Russian wannabe stronker that you are), so you can't read the link I posted!

    Dammn. Pathetic.


    But really, if you don't know jack shit about the SSJ, do everyone a favor and shut up.

    Still no content, just bile from the resident hater troll.

    Put up a number about SSJ-100 production or shut up, you lying git.
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    Post  TR1 on Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:57 am

    http://superjet.wikidot.com/sales

    There. Read it. You can, right? Surely you know SOME Russian?

    If not, can you add numbers?
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:54 am

    While I'm sure they'll manufacture a couple hundred aircraft within 20 years, I'm just as sure it won't be 1,000. Not only is the market already heavily-saturated with competition, that competition includes long-proven products from Boeing and Airbus.

    Your sure they will sell a couple of hundred? He already said they had firm orders for 174 aircraft before its first flight.

    Competition from old worn out products from Boeing and Airbus?

    Airlines buy new aircraft because they tend to be cheaper to operate...

    Rogozin is prone to blustering anyway..

    Yes... why doesn't he undermine sales and say the aircraft is rubbish and wont sell at all on the international market...   Rolling Eyes

    You want accurate figures, look here.

    So that shows 186 firm orders and options for at the very least another 45, which, if the options are taken means 231 aircraft...

    Add another 8 planes on the order list for the SSJ. The Ministry of Emergency Services has signed a contract for 8 SSJs and 10 Il-76-90TD.

    So 239 aircraft...

    I really hope that Russian airline companies do buy Russian hardware exclusively if NATO decides to shut Russia out of
    foreign markets.

    Considering the value of the rouble, I could probably afford one, but I am equally sure they wont be able to afford a new or even used Boeing or Airbus for some time...

    My overall point is that Rogozin was posturing when he said that Russia would produce 1000 MC-21 airframes within 20 years.

    Yes... optimistic bastard.... he must be tried and shot for such optimism... how could Russia possibly function with optimistic people in charge... they need pessimists that realise they will fail and sell out immediately to the west and become a bitch of the west like Australia and the UK.

    Oh I get it. You can't even read Russian (being the Russian wannabe stronker that you are), so you can't read the link I posted!

    Dammn. Pathetic.


    But really, if you don't know jack shit about the SSJ, do everyone a favor and shut up.

    I can't read Russian either... am I pathetic too?

    There seems to be a lot of frustration and aggressiveness at the moment on this forum... you guys can be mature adults about this and show some self control or I can start handing out 3 day bans.

    I am going to bed now and if I read more of the same bullshit tomorrow I am going to start handing out bans till you either grow up and think about why you come here and bother to post... or fk off... if you are going to act like little girls then I could care less either way... you wont be missed!


    Your fighting makes me feel conflicted... I can't just ignore it... my job is to keep order and moderate this forum, but it is like a man with two sons fighting all the time over meaningless pointless shit that really doesn't matter. I want to bang your heads together, but I don't want to be the bad guy either.... and I don't think giving you all black eyes will change your behaviour.

    Perhaps what you need to do before you reply with something nasty to someone here who has the audacity to disagree with you is think about the last funeral you attended and how that felt. If that doesn't put any argument on the internet into perspective I don't know what would... so have your biting remark and enjoy the next 3 days of not being able to post here and think about things a bit.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:02 am

    BTW from http://mc-21.wikidot.com/sales

    Firm orders for 184 and options for another 72, which potentially means 256 orders and options already...
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    Post  Honesroc on Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:32 pm

    Rogozin is not only the greatest politician in the world, he is a great man.
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    Post  sepheronx on Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:47 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    Honesroc wrote:I won't dignify some of the comments my post received, suffice to say this: Do I welcome competition on the global market? Yes, I'm looking forward to the day when the MC-21 program takes flight. That said, I don't see Russia producing 1,000 airframes in a twenty year-span, particularly given the success of the A320 and 737 programs.

    Rogozin's statement ignores a lot of economic variables in Russia, and more importantly, the narrow-body market which will continue to be dominated by Boeing/Airbus (and yes, it is saturated). I stand by my remarks as they pertain to the MC-21 program.

    Still spewing MP.net style butthurt without providing any sources to your claim.   Why should anyone take seriously your obviously biased
    assessment?   You are just trolling.

    Predictions are just predictions.  Some people here are pessimistic and some others like you or I, are not.  I myself don't believe to see 1000 MS-21's, but I do see a couple hundred or more built.  Wiki's numbers on SSJ-100 is at 296: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Superjet_100#Orders.2C_deliveries_and_operators for orders.  Now it is up to others what their numbers show.

    This is hilarious, given the sort of shit and ignorance you spewed about the Superjet.

    http://superjet.wikidot.com/sales

    An ACTUAL Superjet website made by ACTUAL Russians.
    Posting Wiki over this is hilarious.

    None of what you stated besides link makes sense on my character. I am still against having parts from western countries in SSJ-100, but at least I am man enough to admit that it is Russias best selling civil airliner. I never denied that. You seem to have either reading comprehension issues or an anger issue that needs to be dealt with because conversing with you is quite difficult with you constantly throwing out either insults or comparrisons that has nothing to do with this.

    So I understand your link says 186 orders with total 231 if optionals are included. Other sources say something else. Why get so worked up over it that it requires you and kvs to throw insults around?
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    Post  sepheronx on Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:57 pm

    Honesroc wrote:@TR1

    Agreed! Lol... You read my mind

    Rogozin is right about a lot of things, more specifically the MiC being the biggest industry for Russias manufacturing as well as the importance to use domestic development, he said these before sanctions, and it is correct. He may exaggerate things, but he isnt always wrong or even mostly wrong.
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    Post  TR1 on Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:40 pm

    GarryB wrote:BTW from http://mc-21.wikidot.com/sales

    Firm orders for 184 and options for another 72, which potentially means 256 orders and options already...

    Right, and our intellectual titans in this thread could have taken the link I posted, and like you added up the numbers. They are not 296 orders, whatever way you want to slice it, not today.

    Not knowing Russian is not pathetic, the behavior of certain people in this thread is.

    One member made a comment about how Rogozin is full of shit (which he is, constantly) and how 1000 MS-21 is a tall order (it is), and suddenly you have people jumping down his throat and calling him a troll, and claiming SSJ has nearly 300 orders already. I replied that if you are gonna be a dick to a non-offensive comment, you better not be incorrect yourself.

    In response I get tirades about how I am a Russia and SSJ hater (which is hilarious since in this very thread I defend it repeatedly), and the inability to even ADD UP NUMBERS from the best source online.

    THAT is pathetic.
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    Post  TR1 on Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:41 pm

    Honesroc wrote:Rogozin is not only the greatest politician in the world, he is a great man.

    Great man at doing absolutely nothing and being an attention whore.
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    Post  Honesroc on Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:03 pm

    @TR1
    That was tongue-in-cheek - I agree with the above and your previous post is spot-on.

    I still maintain that airframe orders alone aren't necessarily a good indicator of the success of a program (only deliveries are). This of course isn't exclusive to the UAC.

    @Gary
    "Yes... optimistic bastard.... he must be tried and shot for such optimism... how could Russia possibly function with optimistic people in charge... they need pessimists that realise they will fail and sell out immediately to the west and become a bitch of the west like Australia and the UK."

    I'm not advocating pessimism over optimism here Gary, I'm advocating realism - that's all. I don't know how else to react to your comment. It's not that serious.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:59 pm

    Right, and our intellectual titans in this thread could have taken the link I posted, and like you added up the numbers. They are not 296 orders, whatever way you want to slice it, not today.

    Except that there could possibly be other sources available that offer different numbers, you are saying one source is right and all the rest are wrong. Have you read the other sources for different numbers or are you just assuming the source you provided is the only correct source?

    Your source does not say 296 orders, but it does say more than 200 including firm options before serial production has even started.

    Civilian airliner orders are not like military orders... you don't get all the orders first and then develop the aircraft and then sell a couple more... you do market research and based on need or requirement, plus expected growth, divided by the number of airlines that would consider buying a Russian aircraft and you get a figure... that figure is likely 1,000 because I rather doubt any politician would be able to work out such a number by themselves... they are salesmen, not developers.

    Not knowing Russian is not pathetic, the behavior of certain people in this thread is.

    Takes two to tango...

    One member made a comment about how Rogozin is full of shit (which he is, constantly) and how 1000 MS-21 is a tall order (it is), and suddenly you have people jumping down his throat and calling him a troll, and claiming SSJ has nearly 300 orders already. I replied that if you are gonna be a dick to a non-offensive comment, you better not be incorrect yourself.

    Most politicians are full of it, but that is an interesting interpretation of what was said regarding a news article.

    The post was: "This is just political posturing. While I'm sure they'll manufacture a couple hundred aircraft within 20 years, I'm just as sure it won't be 1,000. Not only is the market already heavily-saturated with competition, that competition includes long-proven products from Boeing and Airbus.

    Rogozin is prone to blustering anyway."

    Looks to me very mild towards Rogozin... I would not equate prone to blustering with full of it.

    Saying they will make about 200 in 20 years and that he is certain they wont make 1,000 because Boeing and Airbus are so wonderful... well on a gardening website that would be fine, but on a Russian website that is the equivalent to going to F35.com and stating that whoever said the US will build 2,500 F-35s is full of shit and they might make 400 because Typhoons and Rafales are so good and already are in service... I'd actually call that trolling to be honest.

    I still maintain that airframe orders alone aren't necessarily a good indicator of the success of a program (only deliveries are). This of course isn't exclusive to the UAC.

    And if there were 5 orders at this stage... early orders are the ONLY indicators available at this stage to judge how well the aircraft will do and it seems to be fine...

    I'm not advocating pessimism over optimism here Gary, I'm advocating realism - that's all. I don't know how else to react to your comment. It's not that serious.

    Really? You mentioned the competition is strong... you didn't mention the competition is old and rather less efficient... how realistic are you being?
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    Post  Werewolf on Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:29 pm

    What a preposterous claim 1000 birds! The man must be sued for doing his job by being optimistic in public to not damage deals in advance but being rather realistic behind doors.

    Don't act like idiots use your brains, ffs.
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    Post  kvs on Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:14 am

    Werewolf wrote:What a preposterous claim 1000 birds! The man must be sued for doing his job by being optimistic in public to not damage deals in advance but being rather realistic behind doors.

    Don't act like idiots use your brains, ffs.

    We have over 200 SSJ-100 orders in 5 years and it is clear that sales are increasing slowly because of basically
    lack of prior reputation in the global civilian market and Soviet legacy negative reputation about service and
    reliability. Assuming the world economy does not implode and that a hotter version of the cold war does not
    cut Russia off from the global market, we are looking at well over 800 sold in 20 years. Past the "unrealistic"
    1000 units since the sales will be driven by the product's reputation.

    Now consider the MC-21 and its larger market. Sales of 1000 units in 20 years is actually a pessimistic estimate.
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    Post  Werewolf on Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:45 am

    kvs wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:What a preposterous claim 1000 birds! The man must be sued for doing his job by being optimistic in public to not damage deals in advance but being rather realistic behind doors.

    Don't act like idiots use your brains, ffs.

    We have over 200 SSJ-100 orders in 5 years and it is clear that sales are increasing slowly because of basically
    lack of prior reputation in the global civilian market and Soviet legacy negative reputation about service and
    reliability.   Assuming the world economy does not implode and that a hotter version of the cold war does not
    cut Russia off from the global market, we are looking at well over 800 sold in 20 years.   Past the "unrealistic"
    1000 units since the sales will be driven by the product's reputation.

    Now consider the MC-21 and its larger market.  Sales of 1000 units in 20 years is actually a pessimistic estimate.

    The western market will only decline in short to mid long period of time and the market will be taken over by China,Russia and maybe when the empire is destroyed some other countries like Brazil and Venezuela can start focusing their resources on developing the country and not fighting constantly one coup after another.
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    Post  mutantsushi on Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:49 am

    kvs wrote:We have over 200 SSJ-100 orders in 5 years and it is clear that sales are increasing slowly because of basically
    lack of prior reputation in the global civilian market and Soviet legacy negative reputation about service and
    reliability.
    And SSJ hit the global financial crisis head on, while RU-NATO relations were still relatively decent.

    Assuming the world economy does not implode and that a hotter version of the cold war does not cut Russia off from the global market, we are looking at well over 800 sold in 20 years.   Now consider the MC-21 and its larger market.  Sales of 1000 units in 20 years is actually a pessimistic estimate.
    Not to mention most commercial operators will replace their jets well within 20 years, i.e a large amount of early customers can be expected to re-order the latest version (re-engined, etc) within a 20 year span.
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    Post  flamming_python on Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:09 pm

    Actually I'm worried that the Sukhoi Superjet will fast become a casualty of the escalating sanctions war.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:32 pm

    flamming_python wrote:Actually I'm worried that the Sukhoi Superjet will fast become a casualty of the escalating sanctions war.

    Don't kid yourself, Russian products have always been blocked from the Western market, even in the subservient Boris Yeltsin era...which is OK because China is cooperating with Russia in developing in so many aerospace fields, that it's likely that it will thrive in the emerging markets.
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    Post  Viktor on Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:03 pm

    Nice  thumbsup


    Russia, China to Invest $13Bln Into New Long-Haul Airplane Project
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    Post  TR1 on Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:13 pm

    flamming_python wrote:Actually I'm worried that the Sukhoi Superjet will fast become a casualty of the escalating sanctions war.

    It sure as hell is not helping it.
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    Post  Rmf on Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:46 pm

    1000/20yrs, thats 50 per year, do they have production facilities and qualified staff for production of 4-5 planes per month?
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    Post  Honesroc on Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:15 pm

    Rmf wrote:1000/20yrs, thats 50 per year, do they have production facilities and qualified staff for production of 4-5 planes per month?

    I guess we'll see..
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    Post  kvs on Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:17 am

    Rmf wrote:1000/20yrs, thats 50 per year, do they have production facilities and qualified staff for production of 4-5 planes per month?

    Obviously they do. In fact they have capacity to produce over 100 per year.

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