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    Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

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    Austin
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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  Austin on Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:11 am

    It would really beat me and my senses if the next generation of AWACS , Tanker and Special aircraft is not based on IL-96-400 and Tu-204-300 variant over the new Il-476.

    The IL-476 declared cost is $100 million , the Il-96 cost $50 - 60 million and Tu-204 cost $ 40 million.

    Would beat me why cant you develop Tanker/AWACS based on IL-96-400M and Special Aircraft/ASW on Tu-204 just on cost grounds.

    I would think these new gen aircraft will be better on other paramaters like fuel efficiency,range,maintenance.


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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:35 am

    The Il-76 was designed to carry heavy loads... it has engines that are rather too powerful and therefore also not so efficient for long range cruising.
    The only reason it was used for the tanking role and the AWACs role was because it was able to carry enough weight to do the job.
    The other AWACs aircraft used the Tu-95s basic design and engines for long range cruising performance (the Tu-126).

    The Tu-214 AND the IL-96 are both far better platforms for tankers and AWACS aircraft because they are wide body aircraft designed for long cruising flights with relatively heavy loads.

    The reality is that the Il-476 will be a good transport, but their new focus on mobility means they can't afford to have their tankers also being their transports. That works ok when you either transport ground forces OR you send in aircraft with tanker support.
    Under their new doctrine they will need to do both so the idea of a tanker/transport... although a good one, becomes a bad one.

    Personally I would like to see the Il-96 used as the A-100 AWACs aircraft and both the Il-96 and the Tu-214 as tanker aircraft.
    Very simply the Tu-214 would be great for all the tactical aircraft like the Mig-29s and Su-27s and Su-35s and Stealth fighters, while the larger capacity of the Il-96 will make it better for the support of the Bears and Blackjacks that need rather more fuel per refuelling.

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  Austin on Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:59 am

    Agreed Garry

    I think a lot of this has to do with reputation in the market as much about capability ( much like you would buy a expensive Boeing 737 over Tu-204 because of reputation although the latter is cheaper and bigger ) , the IL-76 has gained the reputation of being a task master and can take hits and survive and do its job.

    The proliferation of IL-76 also makes a better IL-76 a logical choice to keep maintainence,training to the minimum.

    But if russia makes the move to IL-96 and Tu-204 , the others too would see a reason and logic would follow.

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:04 am

    Austin wrote:
    Vladimir79 wrote:The engine dependency is a part of it, but the biggest concern for the aircraft is the cost. At $40 million per aircraft, it just isn't competitive with Western models that offer more fuel efficiency and better avionics. Russian sales have always been based on low cost efficient solutions and Tu-204 is not it.

    Vlad , thats not true

    Check the Boeing Commercial Price list
    http://www.boeing.com/commercial/prices/index.html

    Even a basic 737-600 cost any where between $51- $56 million and Airbus A320 cost $ 55 million.

    At $40 million Tu-204 is much cheaper and its much bigger aircraft then B737/A-320 , its more in 757 class.

    I think Engine is a big dependencies , plus lack of local market , plus lack of military support has been a nemesis of Tu-204 , technologically they can still get better and match western bird in price/efficiency/comfort but the other factor mentioned above is a killer.

    Well then, the cost must have shot up to $50+ million. Reports say it costs as much as a 737 and A320. If airlines find it competitive it would get more orders.

    Engine is not only dependency, it is money and work being done outside Russia.

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:22 am

    Which is why Russia should invest in engines and actually use the engines it has already developed that are very efficient engines already.

    Right now it an ideal time to reactivate the Il-106 program... an aircraft like that with those sorts of engines with an 80 ton payload would be in the C-17 class but much cheaper to buy and operate and it will make the requirements for more Ukrainian planes like the An-124 and An-70 less urgent.

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:33 am

    Recently came across this article:

    http://www.ruaviation.com/docs/3/2010/11/1/7/

    About the Tu-214.

    Rather than post it all the link is above, but a small part of the story interested me quite a lot...

    The Tu- 214D (engineering reference) with additional fuel tanks can cover over 11,000 km or stay in the air for some 14 hours. Introduction of the NK- 93 geared fan engines promises reduction in specific fuel burn from 18.3 (for the PS-90A powered baseline version) down to 15 gram per km*passenger.

    So the NK-93 engines are going to be used... and presumably since they were designed some time ago they are probably all Russian... unlike the PS-90A which seems to have some American components in it.

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  Austin on Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:38 am

    Thanks for the link Garry , I have been trying to follow NK-93 geared turbofan engine for some time and I believe that project has either been cancelled or freezed.its not actively being pursued.

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:39 am

    Well the article I posted is very recent and mentions it is in testing and its performance is clearly superior to any available alternative.

    It just comes down to getting the thing into production now I would guess... this engine could make the Tu-214 a different aircraft.

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  Austin on Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:26 pm

    GarryB wrote:Well the article I posted is very recent and mentions it is in testing and its performance is clearly superior to any available alternative.

    It just comes down to getting the thing into production now I would guess... this engine could make the Tu-214 a different aircraft.

    The article is just a rehash of AirFleet Tu-214 article I had posted some time back.

    The NK-93 engine development by all accounts have been frozen and probably canceled though it was a promising design but has been under development for more then a decade.

    The only new civil engine underdevelopment is the PD-14 and in the recent AW&ST article i posted on PD-14 there is a 18T variant called PD-18 that would go for a geared turbofan type technology.

    I just wished they had pursued NK-93 program probably funding constrain would have done it.

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:13 am

    The NK-93 engine development by all accounts have been frozen and probably canceled though it was a promising design but has been under development for more then a decade.

    I have read that the engine was tested and testing of the engine was complete and the only problem was that the aircraft it was designed for was cancelled and every other aircraft that might use it is not in production.

    What they need is for an aircraft that could use this engine to get into production so they have a reason to actually make them.

    The situation is ridiculous... they want to buy Ukrainian transports yet they are ignoring an engine created in their country that is world leading even now... 15 years later.


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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  Austin on Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:40 am

    Well if the wanted an aircraft for NK-93 there was already the IL-76 available on which it was getting tested , perhaps its also possible NK-93 did not meet its design goal ?

    Russia buying Ukrainian aircraft is not as bad since 70 % of those components for Antonov is sourced from Russia.Essentially its a joint effort , Ukraine lacks the industry to completly build the aircraft , Antanov design bureau designs the aircraft and builds the engine.

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:52 am

    The ukraine is too flaky and unpredictable.

    They could turn on Russia at the next election and be a real pain in the a$$ like it has in the fairly recent past.

    Russia really doesn't need that sort of crap.

    Russia should look after its own first because its enemies will never give it credit for anything positive it does to foster good ties.

    Let Antonov fail... and Russia can buy it up cheap and transfer it to Russia, or it could just let it die and let Ilyusion and Tupolev and Beriev fill the void... it is not like they can't build good planes too.

    Well if the wanted an aircraft for NK-93 there was already the IL-76 available on which it was getting tested , perhaps its also possible NK-93 did not meet its design goal ?

    They have been talking about re-engining the Il-76 for years and nothing has happened because the PS-90s cost something like 6 million dollars each. Bad enough for the price of one engine but when you need 4 engines per aircraft plus spare engines and parts you start to think maybe the higher fuel burn is not that much of a problem. $24 million dollars per aircraft for new engines to save a few thousand litres of kerosene every year... it might be cheaper to burn the extra kerosene.

    I have read of a more modest upgrade of the D-30 engines that modestly improves performance with no increase in thrust but a 10% reduction in fuel burn and the engines cost about $800,000 each.

    If you can buy a car for 2 million dollars that will save you $10,000 a year in fuel you need to think maybe having the latest state of the art car is no so useful after all.

    It is like the Mig-29SMT upgrade that would have reduced operational costs by 40%... applied in the 1990s and the Mig-29s in storage would have been in much better condition now but 20 years of neglect and they are pretty worthless now.

    What they should have done was gifted them to Serbia so they could have had 100 Mig-29s instead of a dozen. At least someone would have gotten good use out of them. Now they are useless to everyone.

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  Austin on Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:25 pm

    GarryB wrote:The ukraine is too flaky and unpredictable.

    They could turn on Russia at the next election and be a real pain in the a$$ like it has in the fairly recent past.Russia really doesn't need that sort of crap.

    Russia should look after its own first because its enemies will never give it credit for anything positive it does to foster good ties.

    Let Antonov fail... and Russia can buy it up cheap and transfer it to Russia, or it could just let it die and let Ilyusion and Tupolev and Beriev fill the void... it is not like they can't build good planes too.


    Well the problem with Antonov is they are too dependent on Russia for eg 70 % of component for An-148 comes from Russia , Antonov as a design bureau is good , they make fairly decent engine but major component is procured from Russia.

    If there is no Russia support Antonov will simply crumble be it military or civil aviation.

    So any leader that comes in the future needs to take into account this factor , that Russia is a large market for Antonov products and they still source major components from them.

    They have been talking about re-engining the Il-76 for years and nothing has happened because the PS-90s cost something like 6 million dollars each. Bad enough for the price of one engine but when you need 4 engines per aircraft plus spare engines and parts you start to think maybe the higher fuel burn is not that much of a problem. $24 million dollars per aircraft for new engines to save a few thousand litres of kerosene every year... it might be cheaper to burn the extra kerosene.

    Well the PS-90A1 and PS-90A2 are pretty much good engine and can compete against their western peers , the PS-90A2 is a ETOPS-120/180 rated engine.

    They are already providing the option to reengine the older D-30 engine with PS-90A2 if required , but perhaps the airframe line of older IL-76 may not justify the cost of new engine ,the newer airframe on IL76M or IL-476 may go for new engine.

    I have read of a more modest upgrade of the D-30 engines that modestly improves performance with no increase in thrust but a 10% reduction in fuel burn and the engines cost about $800,000 each.

    Yeah they have some Bulark D-30 upgrade program that improves D-30 fuel burn performance, might be worth for older existing IL-76

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:36 am

    Well the problem with Antonov is they are too dependent on Russia for eg 70 % of component for An-148 comes from Russia , Antonov as a design bureau is good , they make fairly decent engine but major component is procured from Russia.

    Russia had all the same problems the Ukraine has had with the ripping apart of their industries.
    If the Ukraine wants to turn west then it can start looking west for partners to help its industry, and such a change can happen the night after an election of a government that is pro west and anti Russian and there are several of those in the Ukraine.
    The question is should Russia gamble that ties with the Ukraine will remain good or get better?
    Remember it was the Ukraine that was stealing gas meant for Europe which got the Russians blamed for erratic energy supply and accused of using energy as a weapon.
    It is not rocket science... where the Ukraine and Russia are concerned they are now separate independent countries, so if a Russian company is making something that needs foreign parts it could look to the Ukraine, but then it could just as easily look to any other foreign country too.
    The Russian military and Russian government should favour aircraft and material with all Russian components first, and if they are not good enough then licence production of the better stuff made in Russia should be the second option.
    Foreign made parts should only be acceptable where the foreign made parts are made by a genuine ally like India or Serbia rather than a fair weather friend like the Ukraine.

    The huge irony is that with all the rubbish about Russia being responsible for famines in the Ukraine as genocide is that Oleg Antonov was Russian. The policy to spread industry to the various republics was a Soviet policy.

    If there is no Russia support Antonov will simply crumble be it military or civil aviation.

    And if there was not support or customers for Airbus it would crumble too, but why would Russia care?
    If Antonov crumble the Russians might consider buying it at a low price, but then Boeing or Airbus might consider it a cheap way to get their expertise too.

    Russia could spend money bailing out Antonov and the Ukrainian shipyards by giving them work that could otherwise be done in Russia, but how can Russia be sure such gestures would even be appreciated in 10 years time or at the next election?

    What is the point of helping the Ukraine now when you suspect when it is a little stronger it will leap into the arms of the west and turn its back on you at the first opportunity?

    So any leader that comes in the future needs to take into account this factor , that Russia is a large market for Antonov products and they still source major components from them.

    That has been the case since the Antonov Design Bureau was created yet in recent years during the coloured revolutions it wasn't important... the west was going to save them and the Russians were the source of all their problems and were holding them back.
    It failed this time around but what about next time?

    Yeah they have some Bulark D-30 upgrade program that improves D-30 fuel burn performance, might be worth for older existing IL-76

    If the prices haven't changed then it might make economic sense to fit the upgraded engines rather than the new ones because the purchase price difference is probably more than the extra fuel burn costs and maintainence costs. More expensive engines will require more expensive components...

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  George1 on Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:43 pm

    The Kremlin selects Tu-214 as platform for special mission aircraft

    June 1, 2009, the first day of this summer, seems to be the turning point for the program of the Tupolev Tu-214 narrow body airliner. That day the Kazan Aviation Production Association named after Sergei Gorbunov (KAPO) delivered two Tupolev Tu-214SR aircraft, registration RA-64515 and RA-64516, to the Special Air Detachment under the Administration of the President of Russian Federation (the operator is also referred to as the Moscow branch of GTK “Rossiya”, GTK stands for “State Transport Company”). On the same day, both aircraft were ferried to Moscow Vnukovo airport, their main station, and were inspected on arrival by Russian prime-minister Vladimir Putin. Reportedly, he made some remarks about high performance and high manufacturing quality of GTK Rossiya’s new assets, and issued command to continue with the plan on more Tu-214s for governmental structures.

    http://www.airfleet.ru/arhiv/n3_2009/special_assignment_for_tu-214/


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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  George1 on Fri May 04, 2012 8:49 am

    http://www.ruaviation.com/news/2012/3/27/879/

    The Ministry of Defense will acquire two special Tu-214SUS aircraft

    Kazan Aviation Production Association named after S.P.Gorbunov will deliver two special Tu-214SUS (airborne communication center) aircraft to Russian Ministry of Defense in 2012, Lenta.ru reports. These jets have been assembled in late 2011. According to a source, one Tu-214SUS has already been delivered to the customer and the second one will be delivered by the end of the year.

    The Kazan enterprise has also delivered four special aircraft – Tu-214PU (control point) and Tu-214SR (radio relay aircraft) to the Ministry of Defense earlier. The specified six jets have been purchased from KAPO in the network of a single contract and then Russian Ministry of Defense has acquired two additional reconnaissance Tu-214ОS aircraft, intended for taking part in the Open Skies international program.

    According to the source, one Tu-214OS has been assembled last year, but it has not been delivered to the customer yet. It must undergo the certification and state testing this year. The customer will acquire the jet in late 2012. The second one will be assembled by the end of the year and it will be delivered in 2013. As expected, an order on several Tu-214SRs may be placed soon.

    The basic Tu-214 is the modification of medium-haul Tu-204 with the extended takeoff weight (110.8 tons). Тu-214PU, Тu-214SUS and Ту-214SR are the special aircraft intended for Presidental Administration. The jets are equipped with special communications equipment.

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  George1 on Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:26 am

    Russia to Design Arctic Patrol Aircraft

    Russian defense ministry set a task to develop a special aircraft to patrol Arctic with long flight duration and range, and special equipment and armament onboard.

    Development of the new aircraft will start upon tender results. Airplanes based Tu-214, A-40/42, and probably Be-200 may attend the tender. Certainly, today it is prematurely to talk about the tender terms, reports Interfax citing a source in Russian defense industry.

    At present, dozens of Russian Navy's antisubmarine and patrol aircraft Il-38 and Il-38N are involved in patrolling of Arctic territories. Overaged airplanes will be written off in the nearest years.

    In its turn, Canada plans to engage upgraded version of American unmanned aircraft RQ-4 Block 30 Global Hawk made by Northrop Grumman to patrol Arctic. That UAV is called Polar Hawk. As is expected, it will be adapted for operation in extremely cold conditions being capable to control up to 22,000 sq km.

    The Polar Hawk unmanned aircraft will rise up to 18,300 meters and perform non-stop monitoring through 33 hours.

    http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=15303

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  George1 on Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:32 pm


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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  Flanky on Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:23 pm

    Which version is the Tu-214 on the photo?

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  George1 on Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:42 pm

    Flanky wrote:Which version is the Tu-214 on the photo?

    Tu-214R

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  George1 on Wed May 28, 2014 3:13 pm

    Russia's new optic-electronic instruments to be used in implementing Open Skies Treaty

    A new Russian-made optic-electronic complex will be used for operation in monitoring compliance with the Treaty on Open Skies (TOS), according to Russia’s Deputy Minister of Defense Anatoly Antonov.

    "Representatives of the states that are parties to TOS, who participated in certification, have signed a report, which makes it possible to use the domestically-made digital camera in TOS observation flights over foreign states," he explained.

    Antonov recalled that the preparation for an international certification of the Russian digital observation instrumentation had been made in the course of the past three years. A large amount of flight tests and trials by means of non-flying testbeds had been carried out.

    "We consider that this was not in vain. This is Russia's contribution to optimizing the methodology of introducing modern digital instruments to operate 'in the field' under the TOS, so as to render the Treaty more effective," the Deputy Minister emphasized. "The use of the new instrumentation has considerably increased the informative value of data received, raised the promptitude of their processing and duplication, and expanded resources for documenting and archiving of photo pictures."

    Antonov related that the certification of the Russian camera had become possible also due to years-long intensive work of an international team of experts on observation instrumentation at the Vienna-based Open Skies Consultative Commission who worked out a package of major documents necessary for introducing digital sensors to the everyday practice of observation flights.

    "Thereby, the Russian Federation is the first among four TOS countries to certify the digital instrumentation," the Deputy Minister of Defense said, TASS reports.

    "It appears that this step has reaffirmed the viability of TOS and opened up new prospects for its strengthening and development. We expect that the Treaty will continue to serve in future as well further to strengthen confidence-building measures and security in Europe resultant of an enhanced transparency of military activities," Antonov said in conclusion.
    Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_05_28/Russias-new-optic-electronic-instruments-to-be-used-in-implementing-Open-Skies-Treaty-6818/

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  George1 on Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:51 pm

    A flying test-bed derived from Tu-214 aircraft will be developed in Russia in order to develop the all-electric aircraft concept

    It is planned to develop a flying test-bed derived from Tu-214 aircraft (№ 64501) in order to develop the all-electric aircraft concept. In future the jet will be upgraded to Tu-214E version, ITAR-TASS reports.

    The all-electric aircraft (AEA) is an aircraft having a centralized electric power supply system meeting all of the vehicle’s energy needs.

    "During development of a test engine for the AEA derived from PS-90A we must use all the experienced gained during development of PD-14 engine. We should use state-of-the-art technologies in the area of design and production", - General Designer and Managing Director of Aviadvigatel, Alexander Inozemtsev, said.

    At present the Russia’s leading companies are developing a concept of the AEA’s powerplant. This is one of the global aviation’s strategic trends.

    Aviadvigatel held a meeting of a Research and Development Board dedicated to development of an engine for AEA. Earlier the Expert Board of Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute named after N.E. Zhukovsky (TsAGI) recommended Russian Ministry of Industry and Trade approve the draft “Comprehensive program for development of an all-electric aircraft". This program will be in force from 2014 to 2022. PS-90A engine will be upgraded by Aviadvigatel in cooperation with other enterprises.

    Over 100 enterprises of aircraft, radio-electronic and electrical engineering industries as well as some leading institutes of the Russian Academy of Sciences will be involved in the program,

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  George1 on Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:06 pm

    Russian Air Force Received New Aircraft Surveillance System “Open Skies”

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  George1 on Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:14 pm

    On the basis of the Tu-214 plane created electronic warfare complex

    "As reported by the newspaper "Military-Industrial Courier", JSC KRET in conjunction with the Bureau of JSC "Tupolev" began the creation of modern electronic warfare complex, which is scheduled for installation on the TU-214."

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1166918.html


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    Fleet of Tu-214SR repeaters to be increased by the end of this year

    Post  Honesroc on Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:24 am

    From engineeringrussia:

    This year the Kazan Aviation Plant named after Gorbunov – branch of JSC “Tupolev” – will build two Tu-214SR aircraft in accordance with a state contract, a source in the aviation industry informed. More information follows in the link below:

    https://engineeringrussia.wordpress.com/2015/02/11/fleet-of-tu-214sr-repeaters-to-be-increased-by-the-end-of-this-year/


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