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    Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

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    Austin
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    Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  Austin on Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:23 pm

    There are lot of these new Tu-214SR Special Mission aircraft being procured , One can just guess what role do they do but there is a good write up on this.

    Probably SVR assets ?

    SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT FOR TU-214

    Pics Tu-214SR 1
    Pics Tu-214SR 2

    Igor Shevchuk, UAC vice-president on strategic and special purpose aviation, Tupolev president and general designer said when addressing KAPO employees: “It is a great thing that newly built Tupolev aircraft continue being built and get delivered to their customers. Today, a new pair of these outstanding vehicles is being handed over to the Administration of the President of the Russian Federation. Sincerely, I am very grateful to all of those people who took part in development, construction and testing of these airplanes – workers, engineers, ground and flight crews. I wish these two airplanes will serve successfully for many-many years, flying high in the peaceful blue skies. Let me remind you that a month ago these airplanes proved their worth in a long-haul mission when they flew 13 hours non-stop, over the Far East, Extreme North, then Moscow and back to Kazan. That time everything worked well, and according to the specification.

    The new Tu-204SM looks quite promising until the MS-21 comes the Tu-204/214 will be the backbone of many special mission aircraft

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  Stealthflanker on Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:33 pm

    some sort of new "Airborne Command Post" or "ELINT" aircraft eh ? , that big device on her dorsal really make me curious on what's its function

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  GarryB on Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:42 am

    Those are certainly Phased Array Antennas ,Not sure what the purpose is

    They face directly up, so I would say it was satellite communications equipment.

    The R-438 sat comm kit uses a flat array type antenna too.

    in the link you gave it states:

    The new aircraft are intended replacement for the morally outdated Il-22 relay aircraft (a special mission airplane using the platform of Il-18 four-engine turboprop airliner).

    So it performs the function of a relay aircraft.

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  Austin on Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:19 am

    GarryB , I dont know what R-438 sat comm kit constitutes but if those flat bed antenna are of phased array type specially AESA then it will have many communication channels compared to conventional antenna.

    The Tu-214SR comes in many variant and as per Fedrov in that article it would be difficult externally to distinguish one aircraft from another and the nature of the task they do , since they will have the same external appearance , this is significant IMO since in the past it was not too difficult for a trained eye to distinguish a SIGINT aircraft from say a command and control or relay aircraft.

    They are building a large number of special aircraft based on Tu-214 , the initial order is for 12 with an option for 12 more , thats a good number of asset.

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:09 am

    The R-438 is a portable satellite communications station that can be carried by airborne, mobile and recon forces.

    It looks like two very shallow shoe boxes side by side with their longest sides together on a stand with a couple of boxes plugged into it.

    As a relay aircraft I would anticipate being able to relay as many signals in both directions at once will be useful... Smile

    Of course Phased array might be a poor choice of terminology as it will more likely be lots of antennas operating individually rather than antenna elements acting as one big antenna.

    Of course it would make sense to make the aircraft multirole... if it is needed as a relay then it could certainly perform other functions while on station too.

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  Austin on Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:57 am

    Thanks Garry , Here is another news of new mobile secure communication under development

    Medvedev urges creation of mobile communications for special services

    President Dmitry Medvedev has set Russia's security agencies the task of creating a reliable modern system for confidential mobile communications, the secretary of the Russian Security Council said Friday.

    "We will work on this, and I hope such communications will appear soon: we have already done some groundwork," Nikolai Patrushev told journalists after a Security Council meeting.

    Patrushev explained that he meant mobile phones on which confidential conversations could be held from any point on the Earth.

    "And the talk cannot be intercepted," said Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov, who delivered a report at the meeting.

    Patrushev said currently available systems are too bulky.

    He said an interdepartmental commission would be set up to coordinate work to create the system.

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:13 am

    Stealthflanker wrote:some sort of new "Airborne Command Post" or "ELINT" aircraft eh ? , that big device on her dorsal really make me curious on what's its function

    They belong to the President, they are communication relays for executive comms traffic.

    http://www.deagel.com/news/First-Two-Tu-214SR-Jets-Delivered-to-the-Administration-of-the-President-of-Russian-Federation_n000006130.aspx

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  Austin on Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:01 pm

    This should clear some questions on Tu-214SR

    Tupolev has 6 programs based on special-purpose aircraft Tu-214

    "Tupolev" has six programs create a special purpose aircraft based on the Tu-214, told reporters at the MAKS-2009 the president - chief designer of the company Igor Shevchuk.

    Among these programs, aircraft transponder Tu-214SR, two of these aircraft have already been transferred to a special flying squad of the administration of Russian President, aircraft control panel with a VIP-cabin, the plane-site communications, and machines commissioned by the Ministry of Defence.

    "Just ordered 12 Tu-214 aircraft in a special performance, with an option for another 12 such machines", - said Igor Shevchuk.

    The Tu-214SR has a range of more than 9 thousand kilometers. "In one of the flights the aircraft spent in the air 13 hours 15 minutes in a" battle "conditions, providing a link in the air for the President of the Russian Federation", - said Igor Shevchuk.

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  GarryB on Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:56 am

    I wonder what the other 5 programs are?

    I would guess a replacement for the Be-12 Mail and Il-38 May and even the Tu-142 Bear in the maritime reconnaissance/anti submarine/MPA role along with the A-42 in places where it would be more appropriate.

    So what could the other 4 roles be?

    Replacement for the Il-20/22?
    (ieELINT electronic, radar reconnaissance version.
    or Naval Elint version or Airborne command post version)

    VIP?

    Light tanker for tactical aircraft?

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  Austin on Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:34 am

    What he says is 5 different program based on Tu-214SR. Considering the order is now for 12 Aircraft with an option for 12 more , these will be ELINT/COMINT/RELAY/Command aircaft/VIP Transport.

    The small number does not indicate replacement for IL38/142 though they have proposed Tu-204P as a replacement for existing MPA.

    Certainly I would be very happy to see the Tu-204P get the green light , this would be 100 odd aircraft and will keep production line open till 2020.

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  GarryB on Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:43 am

    The way I would read what you posted above was:

    "Tupolev" has six programs create a special purpose aircraft based on the Tu-214, told reporters at the MAKS-2009 the president - chief designer of the company Igor Shevchuk.

    That Tupolev has 6 programs to create special purpose aircraft based on the Tu-214. You wouldn't run 6 programs to develop one multi role aircraft. I would take this to mean there are going to be 6 different multi role aircraft developed from the Tu-214.
    Of course these are Tupolev programs and it doesn't mean that the Russian defence force has ordered 6 versions of this aircraft into service... it means that Tupolev obviously see 6 areas where this aircraft could be used to replace existing aircraft.


    Among these programs, aircraft transponder Tu-214SR, two of these aircraft have already been transferred to a special flying squad of the administration of Russian President, aircraft control panel with a VIP-cabin, the plane-site communications, and machines commissioned by the Ministry of Defence.

    In other words of the 6 programs the aircraft created in the transponder version program called Tu-214SR for as Vlad correctly pointed out communication relays for executive comms traffic has had two aircraft transferred to a special flying squad... blah blah blah.

    "Just ordered 12 Tu-214 aircraft in a special performance, with an option for another 12 such machines", - said Igor Shevchuk.

    So after testing the two above they now have an order for 12 more with an option to get another 12 if they need them later on.


    I think my question remains: What are the other 5 programs developing aircraft based on the Tu-214 does anyone know?

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  Tshering22 on Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:32 pm

    People, don't you think that this Tu-214SR would be a great and modern replacement to the IL-76 as an AWACS carrier for VVS as well as major client countries? Airbus Military as well as Boeing are offering similar twin-engined jets for Maritime patrol and recon mission. The Boeing P-8A is the latest example to note. I think upgrading the engines for longer distance capabilities and completely digitalizing flight control systems would give it a good hand at exporting to military customers of Tupolev.

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:46 am

    As far as I know Tupolev are developing a version of the Tu-214 to replace the Il-38 May and the Be-12 Mail in their roles.
    The Russian Navy has also ordered an ASW version of the A-40 Albatross jet amphibian called A-42 that will be useful in light sea conditions where it could land and perform search and rescue missions etc like in the Black and Caspian sea areas.

    For an AWACs aircraft I would want a bigger plane with more endurance and space for electronics.
    The A-50 (Il-76 AWACS) aircraft have just gone through a major overhaul but it was short of brand new AESA radars. An official was talking about the upgrade recently said that the upgrade would improve performance but that there was a replacement program being worked on called the A-100 which will likely be based on a new aircraft... perhaps the Tu-214, but I am hoping for a larger aircraft like the Il-96.
    The Tu-214 would be a good platform for an inflight refuelling tanker too however and with most tactical Russian fighters and bombers having inflight refuelling probes they will need a large fleet of tanker aircraft.
    You need a really big tanker for refuelling Tu-95s and Tu-160s but a smaller aircraft might be better for fighters and light strike aircraft etc.

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  Andy_Wiz on Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:41 pm

    GarryB, as for your question on the variants of the Tu-214, the guy from UAC I know says:

    • Tu-214ON - "open sky" treaty, photo recon

    • Tu-214PU - command post("пункт управления")

    • Tu-214SR -relay station aircraft ("самолет-ретранслятор")

    • Tu-214SUS - communications node (СУС - "самолет-узел связи")

    • 411 - "изделие" (item 411)silent


    He was also hoping that they would get the contract for PLO(MPA)version from the Navy, though from what I could gather the design is at early stage.

    Here are pictures of the unpainted PU aircraft(scroll down the page) - http://tupolev.ru/Russian/Show.asp?SectionID=35

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:32 pm

    All of the aircraft versions are non-military. 3 belong to the presidential unit and the other to civil land management.

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  GarryB on Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:29 am


    * Tu-214ON - "open sky" treaty, photo recon

    So that would replace the Tu-154 formerly used, with perhaps another aircraft to replace the An-30... perhaps some variant of the MTA developed with India?


    * Tu-214PU - command post("пункт управления")

    A replacement for the Il-22 Coot-B


    * Tu-214SR -relay station aircraft ("самолет-ретранслятор")

    Replacement for ?


    * Tu-214SUS - communications node (СУС - "самолет-узел связи")

    Replacement for ?


    * 411 - "изделие" (item 411)silent

    There are orders for the A-42 to be fitted with the Russian version of Sea Dragon (Sea Dragon being the export name).

    The question remains (And thanks for every ones input, it is appreciated... Smile ) will production of the A-42 be large scale, or will it replace the Be-12 MAIL only with a new variant of the Tu-214 used to replace the Il-38 MAY?
    The A-42 certainly has the range and speed to replace both, but would it be efficient enough in both roles and how would its operational costs compare with a Tu-214 model.

    AFAIK the Sea Dragon system should be able to be fitted into the Tu-214 without too much development work so it shouldn't be too hard to do.

    All of the aircraft versions are non-military. 3 belong to the presidential unit and the other to civil land management.

    I would think the prospects of the Tupolev aircraft would be best within the military because the military are hardly going to order a Boeing or Airbus. Once in production for the military then production facilities could be used to make aircraft for civilian users too. I am sure Boeing and Airbus will scream that this is effectively a subsidy but this would be an extreme case of pot calling the kettle black with Boeing and Airbus very guilty of the same crime.

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  Austin on Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:42 am

    GarryB , there are lobbies within Russia that are trying to push the A-42 but has not been sucessful yet , just read the BSF will get upgraded IL-38 fitted with Novella ASW Suite ( export variant is called Sea Dragon )

    But it would be nice to see they replace and standardise their ASW fleet on Tu-204 aircraft and replace the IL-38 and Tu-142M ASW aircraft.

    There are export market for such new platforms based on commercial aircraft considering no new IL-38 or Tu are being manufactured , one of the reason why India opted for P-8I to replace the Tu's in IN fleet.

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:41 am

    Unlucky plane

    UAC is considering closing the project Tu-204SM

    President of the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) Alexei Fedorov, the first time officially acknowledged that the production of Tu-204 and Tu-204SM can be minimized. The reason for the lack of customers, which, according to experts, due to too high a price on the liners. As the sources of RBC daily, the decision to close the project will take the government in early November, since such a step would lead mass layoffs and partial preservation of the Ulyanovsk aviation plant.

    Alexei Fedorov in Kiev yesterday said he would not rule out folding Tupolev aircraft production, though later the official representative of the KLA adjusted statements of its leader, noting that the complete closure of the project can be no question. "We have assembled a working group to draft the Tu-204, which included representatives of the KLA, Tupolev, Ilyushin Finance and Irkut." Manufacturing will not be closed because it could be a blow to the operating companies "- said the spokesman for the KLA .

    For the first time about the possible closure of the project Tu-204 first appeared in March this year. As mentioned by sources close to the KLA, the Ulyanovsk factory was left without customers. At that time, the KLA was only a contract for the construction of two Tu-204-300 for the presidential administration. Other Russian customers waiting for emergence of a new modification of the Tu-204SM, release dates which are constantly moved. As then noted, instead of the 2009 plane can appear only in 2011, but in case of further delay, there is a risk that the program will be phased out altogether. The first customer of the Tu-204SM should speak an Iranian company Iran Air Tour, but because of U.S. sanctions, the contract was canceled (the developer of PS-90A2 is an American Pratt & Whitney). Another customer was to become the airline's Moscow (signed a preliminary agreement to supply 15 cars from the end of 2011). However, the airline has not confirmed its willingness to enter into firm contract. Yesterday, representatives of Moscow were unavailable for comment.

    In early October, save the program offered the head of the National Reserve Corporation (NRC), Alexander Lebedev. He promised to buy 44 Tu-204SM for its airline Red Wings. However, the businessman wanted to spend the money to buy aircraft, which are expected to receive from the sale of its stake in leasing company Ilyushin Finance (as reported in a letter to Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, and a copy is available to RBC daily). At the same time, the businessman has openly declared inadmissible for the airline's cost of airplanes. Lebedev said he is ready to fly airplanes for 700-750 mln. However, the manufacturer calls a different price - 1.3 billion rubles. "But in order for it to be competitive, the aircraft should cost the plant about 1 billion rubles." - Said the spokesman for IFC.

    According to sources, RBC daily, the new version of the product line UAC (which is now being discussed) there are no projects Tu-204, Tu-204SM, Tu-214 Tu-334. This week's issue of introducing a Tu-204SM in the product line discussed in the KLA, but this requires contracts not less than 40 aircraft. The fate of this project will be considered by the Government in November. According to sources, RBC daily, this level of decision-making due to the fact that closing the program will lead to negative social consequences due to staff reductions at the Ulyanovsk aviation plant.

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  Austin on Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:44 am

    If that happens it would be absolutely tragic and great loss for Russia Aviation Industry as a whole and I dont want to believe it as yet No cry cry

    I really had high hopes from the Government and few Civil Airliners that they would buy the Tu-204,Tu-204SM and Il-96 in decent numbers and keep production line running till 2016.

    I just hope the military positively looks at Tu-204P as a suitable replacement for IL-38 and Tu-142M MPA.

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  GarryB on Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:17 am

    Perhaps this is the UACs equivelent of "If we can't get it in Russia we will go foreign" threat.

    If you don't buy our plane we can't justify the upgraded versions you are waiting for, so if you don't order the plane this is based on not only will you not get the future plane but lots of people will be unemployed and likely move to high tech western jobs working for Boeing or Airbus.

    Hardly an idle threat as the centre for maintainence was set up n Moscow to maintain Boeings because Russian aerospace ability is equal to western ability but those Russian specialists work for less.

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  Austin on Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:49 pm

    GarryB wrote:Perhaps this is the UACs equivelent of "If we can't get it in Russia we will go foreign" threat.

    If you don't buy our plane we can't justify the upgraded versions you are waiting for, so if you don't order the plane this is based on not only will you not get the future plane but lots of people will be unemployed and likely move to high tech western jobs working for Boeing or Airbus.

    Hardly an idle threat as the centre for maintainence was set up n Moscow to maintain Boeings because Russian aerospace ability is equal to western ability but those Russian specialists work for less.

    Working for Boeing or Airbus will not help in development of Russian Aerospace Industry specially the Civil Aviation.

    UAC is right in that they need decent orders to improve its production and technology base , It is now up to the government to support programs like Tu-204 and IL-96 which are quite good platforms for Military and Special Purpose development.

    For eg I propose that Tu-204 be further developed into new generation of ASW Aircraft Tu-204P and New ELINT/Government Transport Aircraft for Inter Russia Travel.

    Tu-204SM will certainly win some small orders on its own merits.

    IL-96-400 based aircraft should be developed as new generation Tankers/Aerial Refuellers , AWACS A-100 and replace old IL-86 based Air Borne Command post with new IL-96 based one.

    Now IL-96 cost accoring to wiki is $50 million and the new IL-476 cost $100 million as per its factory , IL-96 is so much competitively priced and it offer better fuel efficiency , longer range and modern aerodynamics compared to its 20 years old design IL-76.

    All in all I see good potential for IL-96 and Tu-204 if Russian Government supports its initially and there is always a replacement market for traditional Russian customers that it can target.

    This way it can support the civil industry by subsiding its development and Militarily it gets a better aircraft.


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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:19 am

    I fully agree with you.

    The problem is that when they start playing these games they stop thinking of reality.

    Military officials saying they will buy foreign technology is fine, but you need to remember that a western military manufacturing company will charge more because they have to fund R&D themselves.
    R&D is expensive because you are working with all the latest technologies in many fields. The problem is that you need good communication with your military to work out what they are doing and where they are going so you know what sort of things will be needed.

    In the west there are organisations that work with new technology and try to adapt it to military purposes. DARPA springs to mind and a centre for that very thing. (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency).

    Without such an organisation you will get ten different companies all working on similar problems and coming up with solutions that are different and not interchangable. Ten R&D budgets spent on solutions when if you stepped back you could look at the solutions and say... these two are the best ideas... try working on these and the other 8 companies can use their money on different problems and when the two results are in you can evaluate them and decide which one everyone uses. It might become clear that one solution is best, or a combination of the two might be best. Either way less money and effort and time is wasted.

    During the Soviet period because of secrecy there was a lot of wasted effort and money.
    The reality is that the problem is not with UAC, the Tupolevs and Ilyusions are every bit as good as western equivelents... the problem right now is with engines. A bit of a funding boost and support for the engine makers to create either all new engines or to boost the performance of existing engines without American input and they would get sales. The thing is that a lot of countries around the world can't or wont buy American so it makes no sense trying to put American parts in Russian aircraft.

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:27 am

    The engine dependency is a part of it, but the biggest concern for the aircraft is the cost. At $40 million per aircraft, it just isn't competitive with Western models that offer more fuel efficiency and better avionics. Russian sales have always been based on low cost efficient solutions and Tu-204 is not it.

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  Austin on Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:35 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:The engine dependency is a part of it, but the biggest concern for the aircraft is the cost. At $40 million per aircraft, it just isn't competitive with Western models that offer more fuel efficiency and better avionics. Russian sales have always been based on low cost efficient solutions and Tu-204 is not it.

    Vlad , thats not true

    Check the Boeing Commercial Price list
    http://www.boeing.com/commercial/prices/index.html

    Even a basic 737-600 cost any where between $51- $56 million and Airbus A320 cost $ 55 million.

    At $40 million Tu-204 is much cheaper and its much bigger aircraft then B737/A-320 , its more in 757 class.

    I think Engine is a big dependencies , plus lack of local market , plus lack of military support has been a nemesis of Tu-204 , technologically they can still get better and match western bird in price/efficiency/comfort but the other factor mentioned above is a killer.

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    Re: Tu-214SR/R Special Mission Aircrafts

    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:55 am

    Aw come on... I have been in a 767 in economy class and I can tell you lots of words were going through my mind starting with c and comfort wasn't one of them...

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