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    Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Stealthflanker
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    Post  Stealthflanker on Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:15 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    im wondering about your opinions about the claims of an user in another forum about Russia navy defense capabilities.. He told..

    Both AEGIS and the UK/French PAAMS are designed to counter "saturated attacks" of high performance, supersonic anti-ship missiles and aircraft. No Soviet missile would penetrate the defense systems of ANY AEGIS or PAAMS equipped warship.

    I would put PAAMS slightly above AEGIS in terms of air-defense capabilities - however AEGIS will regain parity or even exceed PAAMs in the near future (upgrades etc).

    Apart from AEGIS and PAAMS there is no other naval air-defense system that even comes close.

    The Chinese type 052C and future 052D destroyers are equipped with advanced AESA multi-function radars and long-range SAMs to provide similar capabilities of Western AEGIS/PAAMS systems. But we can safely assume that the Chinese "AEGIS" is still inferior to the Western systems. The Indian Navy is also developing its own "AEGIS" system in the new P-15A (Kolkata-class) and P-15B destroyers. But again, like the Chinese system it is still inferior to Western AEGIS and PAAMS. Germany and the Netherlands have also developed their own "AEGIS" like systems.

    The Russians as of yet have not developed any capable naval air defense systems and their fleet will still be vulnerable to anti-ship missiles like the Harpoon or Exocet.

    He seems a fanboy but not sure of any of his claims.. whats your take about his comments?
    it was in defense pk forums . can post the link of the conversation if you want.

    Typical old arguments..no need to get really worked up on it.

    AEGIS air defense are still limited by how many fire control director it can carry... even with 100++ standards.. Arleigh burke can only at best engage three of them at long range because it only carries three directors. SM-6 may improve their case though.. but with advent of naval based 9M96's..they're equal.

    I Don't really buy of "Over The Horizon Engagement" capability of the SM-6's as it still relies on other platform who were happen to spot the target to contact the missile carrier before launch.

    Russian naval air defense are more comprehensive than their western counterpart.. just take Kashtans.. combination between missile and guns.. can engage more targets than any EU or US Close in systems except RAM...along with Klinok and naval version of OSA's .. All of them have their own Radar's Thus won't disturb each other.. meaning more targets can be engaged independently.

    And even nicer that Russian CIWS often come in pair... instead typical western arrangement which favor single fighter arrangement.. meaning that Russian CIWS can put more lead on the air.. increasing probability of destruction of AsHM's

    And odds are that if Soviet doctrine implemented.. There would be jammers directed at the radar's...though this can be dealt with ECCM's ... and not to mention Soviet ASHM's are armored.. won't be easily brought down by typical SAM fragmentation warhead.

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:28 am

    It is similar to the situation on land... the Soviets spend a lot of money on their air defences on land and sea because the west spent a lot on air power.

    The Soviets have systems like Kashtan and soon Pantsir-S1 with two 6 barrel gatling guns and 8 ready to fire missiles and 24 reload missiles on an automatic ammo handling system... do you think that is because they have rather more experience with supersonic anti ship missiles?

    As StealthFlanker mentions the total number of on board SAMs is not as important as the number of missile director channels you have... SA-2 SAM sites with the capability of engaging one target at a time means two cruise missiles at once are a serious threat... Vityaz with 16 missile directors each able to control 2 missiles against 1 target means 16 targets can be engaged at once with the high speed of the missile meaning more targets can be engaged per minute than with older slower missiles.
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    Post  Austin on Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:29 pm

    CB "Amethyst" has begun to develop a lightweight naval gun system "Kartaun-Puma"
    rusnavy.com

    Design Bureau "Amethyst" has begun to develop a lightweight naval gun system "Kartaun-Puma", which is easier to existing options to four times. It will equip light vehicles, so they will get heavy combat capabilities.

    According to "News" Deputy Director General Yury design office smoothly, managed to ease the weight of the unit due to composite materials.

    - It creates complex, including a gun and ammunition management system. Previous two-barrel gun was and weighed 97 tons, the - single-barrel and weighs 24 tons - through the application of new technical solutions and the introduction of new hardware components, including composite materials, - said Yuri smoothly.

    The principal difference between the perspective of the complex from the previous 130-millimeter plants - a unified fire control system that is compatible not only with any naval artillery systems, but also with complex land 'Beach'.

    - In contrast to the previous, the system creates a universal control for all kinds and for all artillery weapons of the Navy. It used to be - that neither the caliber, it has its own control system. Due to unification, we have reduced the number of management systems, reducing the number of devices. As a result, reduced cost, and at the same time we can control and 30 - and 130-mm gun, - said Yuri smoothly.

    The new complex will be able to get any ship whose design provides artillery. But above all, it will be installed on frigates of Project 22350 - "Admiral Kasatonov", "Admiral Golovko," etc.

    - All of our efforts have focused on weight reduction for this complex could be placed on a ship smaller displacement. Before, we could put the complex on the ships with a displacement of 6.7 tonnes, and now we can put it on ships with a displacement 2 tons This will enhance the combat capabilities of coastal and sea targets to the level of larger displacement ships, - said Yuri smoothly.

    "Kartaun-Puma" is created on the backlog of past development activities - in the complex will fire control system "Puma", the height of the gun will be about 12 m, the length of the barrel - 7-8 pm Just like the last gun "Armat" artillery can hit targets on the water, on the shore and in the air.

    - Compared to what it was before, in the short term, the firing range will be increased by about a factor of 1.5-2. Efficiency is also significantly increase, up to two times, this rate will exceed 30 cannon rounds per minute. Expected to increase reliability 1.5 times increase in the reaction rate of up to two seconds. To manage the new gun will require only three people instead of six, - said Yuri smoothly.

    Installation will be able to fire until it is completely use up ammunition - ammunition "Kartaun-Puma" will be equal to the capacity of the ship's cellar for shells, it is impossible for any foreign counterparts. Shoot 'Kartaun-Puma "will high-explosive, anti-aircraft and any other projectiles caliber 130 mm, including managed.

    - Earlier in the gun shells were submitted as a Kalashnikov rifle cartridges. Now this is a serious intelligent automation mechanisms guns, including ammunition feed system SAP 192-M. Without interrupting the shooting, you can fire up to exhaustion of all ammunition with automatic selection of the type of projectile - Back to the high-explosive anti-aircraft can be instantly. In addition, in this caliber we have a unitary shell, which is also an advantage over other countries - said smoothly.
    The installation will be ready for the start of 2015. To conduct R & D to create a new complex in the 2013-2014 year, KB "Amethyst" will receive 776 million rubles. Produce 130-millimeter artillery complex "Kartaun-Puma" will be of "MZ" arsenal. "
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:26 pm

    Excellent news about the new gun... A-192M... reduced weight, increased range, ability to fire off its entire ammo load in one go (ie fully cooled to prevent overheating so it is able to provide continuous fire support) and small and light enough to be carried by Frigates... excellent news.
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    ali.a.r

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    Post  ali.a.r on Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:16 am

    Rpg type 7v wrote:

    well just 1 major flaw i can see is are you going to have the same number of short range sams as longrange sams because of uksk?
    i mean 1 tube fits all principle is flawed because missiles are of different sizes,short-medium-longrange A-A missile, or you going to have dedicated launchers?
    Not really.

    If for example one UKSK/Redut launch bin can hold one heavy/long-range missile, and a short-or-medium range missile has (for examples sake) half the diameter of the bigger missile, then you could fit four of the smaller missiles into one launch bin. So its entirely possible to carry combinations of different missiles, all using the same launch system.

    If a ship has 16 launch bins, it could carry (again, for examples sake, because I dunno the exact dimensions) 8 of the long range missiles like the 48N6 (each one taking up ONE launch bin) , and 32 9M96 medium range missiles (with 4 missiles in each bin).
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:12 pm

    Russia Develops Robots for Maritime Defense

    MOSCOW, August 4 (RIA Novosti) - Russian scientists have developed and presented to the Defense Ministry a maritime defense system comprising surface, underwater and flying robots, a defense industry official told RIA Novosti on Monday.

    “The global [maritime defense] command-and-control system, which we are developing, is ready for a large-scale testing phase,” General Director and Chief Designer of the Morinformsystem-Agat corporation, Georgy Antsev, said during the Innovation Day exhibition organized by the Defense Ministry.

    "A patrol ship or a submarine are not always capable of monitoring large regions, while an integrated information control robotic system may solve tasks related to the defense of whole regions, as well as providing navigation in difficult conditions," Antsev said.

    According to the official, the system includes remotely-controlled patrol boats, unmanned aerial vehicles, various types of floating beacons and sensors, as well as other means of monitoring, communications and data-management.

    Antsev said his company could create robotic systems providing maritime defenses of any scope - from protection of ports to the defense of entire stretches of border. The robots could be equipped with traditional internal combustion engines or with engines powered by solar or water energy, he added.

    Morinformsystem-Agat Concern is an umbrella organization in the Russian shipbuilding industry specializing in the domains of informational systems and technologies, system engineering in the sphere of marine data computing equipment, electromagnetic compatibility of radio-electronic facilities, degaussing systems, fire control systems of sea-based cruise and ballistic missiles, combat information and control systems and integrated management systems for surface ships and submarines, according to the company’s official website.
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    MotherlandCalls

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    Post  MotherlandCalls on Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:16 am

    George1 wrote:Russia Develops Robots for Maritime Defense

    "A patrol ship or a submarine are not always capable of monitoring large regions, while an integrated information control robotic system may solve tasks related to the defense of whole regions, as well as providing navigation in difficult conditions," Antsev said.

    According to the official, the system includes remotely-controlled patrol boats, unmanned aerial vehicles, various types of floating beacons and sensors, as well as other means of monitoring, communications and data-management.

    I don't see how a remotely controlled patrol boat would be any better than a patrol ship with men on board. The UAVs and other beacons and sensors make a lot more sense and it will be interesting to see the results of those tests.  russia 
    Mike E
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    Post  Mike E on Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:47 am

    MotherlandCalls wrote:
    George1 wrote:Russia Develops Robots for Maritime Defense

    "A patrol ship or a submarine are not always capable of monitoring large regions, while an integrated information control robotic system may solve tasks related to the defense of whole regions, as well as providing navigation in difficult conditions," Antsev said.

    According to the official, the system includes remotely-controlled patrol boats, unmanned aerial vehicles, various types of floating beacons and sensors, as well as other means of monitoring, communications and data-management.

    I don't see how a remotely controlled patrol boat would be any better than a patrol ship with men on board. The UAVs and other beacons and sensors make a lot more sense and it will be interesting to see the results of those tests.  russia 

    It means that the men that would have been on the ship can be placed elsewhere. Patrol boats don't really need to have a crew.
    Morpheus Eberhardt
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:00 am

    I think the following shows the AK-76MA.

    RTN
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    Post  RTN on Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:55 pm

    GarryB wrote:With a scramjet engine things are made much easier because the air coming in does not need to be slowed down to subsonic speeds and then accelerated through the engine back up to high supersonic speeds to generate thrust.

    SSK equipped with VLS will make it unstable & it will be a nightmare to control the SSK’s neutral buoyancy levels. This is because ASCMs like BrahMos-1 are best launched from either VLS or inclined launchers encased within much heavier SSGNs. It was for this reason that Russia way back in 2001 wound-up its efforts to market the VLS-equipped Amur 1650.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:22 am

    SSK equipped with VLS will make it unstable & it will be a nightmare to control the SSK’s neutral buoyancy levels.

    No disrespect meant, but that sounds silly... most subs are full of a range of ballast tanks that allow shifting of the cg to all over the place on the sub.

    Modern cruise missiles are not that different in weight to torpedos, but more importantly on old Soviet and Russian subs the torpedo room is right at the nose of the vessel so launching 4 torpedoes could take up to 10 tons off the weight of the front of the vessel.

    Vertical launch tubes are added to SSKs and can be placed at the CG so weight loss through launching would have zero effect on stability.

    To be honest the launch tubes themselves could be used to balance the boat as when the missiles are launched the doors can be shut and any level of water could be pumped in... as needed from full to none depending on the requirement at the time.

    To be brutally honest the weight of the missile will actually be close to the missiles volume in water as fuel and even HE payloads, as well as electronic sections are not generally denser than water, so the water that fills the tube after the missile has been launched will balance out the loss of weight of the missile...
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:16 pm

    T-5 nuclear/thermonuclear tipped torpedo

    Naval Weapon Systems & Technology - Page 4 3NY2hXa
    Werewolf
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    Post  Werewolf on Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:18 pm

    No supercavitation?
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:40 pm

    Werewolf wrote:No supercavitation?

    Obviously not.
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    Post  Werewolf on Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:09 am

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:No supercavitation?

    Obviously not.

    That was meant, more like Why not? I mean the Shkval has it and also optional nuclear tipped warhead, so what is the benefit of T5 over VA-111?
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:48 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:No supercavitation?

    Obviously not.

    That was meant, more like Why not? I mean the Shkval has it and also optional nuclear tipped warhead, so what is the benefit of T5 over VA-111?

    T-5 was a much older system.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:30 am

    That was meant, more like Why not? I mean the Shkval has it and also optional nuclear tipped warhead, so what is the benefit of T5 over VA-111?

    When the boom at the end is that big... you want it to be as far away from your sub as possible... no huge advantage to getting it there faster.. most nukes have lethal underwater ranges of 10km or more, so whether it is travelling at 30knts or 200knts not many vessels could escape the danger zone... especially when they wont actually know where to run to as the wont know where it has been directed to to explode.
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    Post  Viktor on Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:24 pm

    There has been some word about the new kind of underwater robots able to destroy entire CBG just recently and now this

    Underwater robots are experiencing on a submarine "Sarov"

    The press service of the Russian Navy was then informed that the new submarine is designed to test "of combat and non-combat unmanned underwater vehicles, as well as other types of naval weapons and armaments and underwater technology for various purposes, their prototypes, working models (prototypes) produced from starting installations. " The stand is designed for continuous operation and the possibility of multiple upgrades.

    testing of Russian AIP has started

    CDB "Ruby": a sample of anaerobic systems for submarines already working
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:21 am

    Here it says that a marine version of Tor-M2U is on schedule
    http://военное.рф/2015/%D0%92%D0%BE%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B511/

    They mean naval version for ships or in a different chassis for use by the naval infantry?
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:26 am

    Would be naval version for ships...
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:28 pm

    Russia Successfully Tests Small-Sized Anti-Submarine System in Baltic Sea

    Russia has successfully tested its newest anti-submarine system, which features anti-torpedo capabilities, during military exercises in the Baltic Sea.

    Russia’s stealth corvette Soobrazitelny has successfully tested the country’s newest Paket-NK small-sized anti-submarine system with anti-torpedo capabilities during the military exercises in the Baltic Sea.

    The Kilo class diesel-electric torpedo submarine “Varshavyanka” (Project 877) served as a target and was fired at with actual torpedoes (which hadn't been equipped with warheads).

    The corvette is set to engage in more practice firing and conduct a number of other military exercises.

    The Paket-NK system is designed to engage (destroy) submarines in a ship's close-in zone, when carrying out submarine warfare tasks, and to destroy torpedoes, attacking the ship while carrying out anti-torpedo defense tasks.

    The Paket-NK system can operate independently or be integrated into ship's antisubmarine/anti-torpedo defense system, solving a number of tasks in fully automatic or automated modes.

    The tasks may include the generation of target designation data for smaller heat-seeking torpedoes, based on data provided by ship's sonar systems and posts.

    Detection and classification of attacking torpedoes, determination of their movement parameters, and generation of target designation data for anti-torpedoes

    Pre-launch preparation of combat modules, generation and transfer of firing data to them, launching of anti-torpedoes and/or miniature heat-seeking torpedoes

    The Paket-NK system is a radically new weapon system, allowing surface ships to complete ASW/anti-torpedo defense tasks with high effectiveness, and to substantially increase their survivability.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150209/1017989525.html#ixzz3RG3k3wAI
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    Post  Vympel on Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:22 am

    Lets talk modern Russian torpedoes - we know now that the Russians have dumped their oversized torpedo launchers for surface ships and moved to the international standard size (more or less) with Paket-NK, but what about torpedoes for submarines? Any developments in this area?
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    Post  TR1 on Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:01 am

    Lotta good info here, from mina:

    http://otvaga2004.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=122&p=25

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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:04 am

    George1 wrote:Russia Successfully Tests Small-Sized Anti-Submarine System in Baltic Sea

    Russia has successfully tested its newest anti-submarine system, which features anti-torpedo capabilities, during military exercises in the Baltic Sea.

    Russia’s stealth corvette Soobrazitelny has successfully tested the country’s newest Paket-NK small-sized anti-submarine system with anti-torpedo capabilities during the military exercises in the Baltic Sea.

    The Kilo class diesel-electric torpedo submarine “Varshavyanka” (Project 877) served as a target and was fired at with actual torpedoes (which hadn't been equipped with warheads).

    The corvette is set to engage in more practice firing and conduct a number of other military exercises.

    The Paket-NK system is designed to engage (destroy) submarines in a ship's close-in zone, when carrying out submarine warfare tasks, and to destroy torpedoes, attacking the ship while carrying out anti-torpedo defense tasks.

    The Paket-NK system can operate independently or be integrated into ship's antisubmarine/anti-torpedo defense system, solving a number of tasks in fully automatic or automated modes.

    The tasks may include the generation of target designation data for smaller heat-seeking torpedoes, based on data provided by ship's sonar systems and posts.

    Detection and classification of attacking torpedoes, determination of their movement parameters, and generation of target designation data for anti-torpedoes

    Pre-launch preparation of combat modules, generation and transfer of firing data to them, launching of anti-torpedoes and/or miniature heat-seeking torpedoes

    The Paket-NK system is a radically new weapon system, allowing surface ships to complete ASW/anti-torpedo defense tasks with high effectiveness, and to substantially increase their survivability.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150209/1017989525.html#ixzz3RG3k3wAI

    I think "heat seeking" is a mistranslation in this context. They are really referring to an internal combustion engine.
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    Post  George1 on Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:00 pm

    А-190-01 and А-220М Naval Artillery Systems


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