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    Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

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    The-thing-next-door

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    inner workings of the AK-130 naval gun

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:57 pm

    I have always wondered how the AK-130 fires so fast but I unfortunately am useless at doing research myself.

    Does anyone have a cross section or animated video of its inner workings by any chance?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  GarryB on Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:58 am

    Automated ammo handling systems under the deck with multiple rotary ammo handlers and a vertical rammer for each gun:



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    The-thing-next-door

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:03 pm

    Interesting Does anyone know how the autoloader/gun works I am trying to get an idea of how naval autoloaders work.

    Is it an upscaled autocannon or does it use an autoloader?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:39 am

    The photos above show under deck clusters of rounds that are moved to a vertical lift to drag the rounds up to the gun mount... as each cluster is emptied the clusters roll around and present the next cluster of rounds to be lifted up to the gun.

    I am not sure what happens in the gun turret, but rounds would be rammed into the breach with empty shells ejected and ready to fire rounds stored near the rear of the gun to be loaded and cleared pretty quickly.

    The AK130 has two guns so it would have two feeds for the two barrels.
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    The-thing-next-door

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:47 pm

    What I am particularly interested in is how the ramming mechinismn works and also how the rounds are fed into it.

    Do you maby have some information on the guns of other naval turrets?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:01 am

    just google naval gun turrets cross section in the images section... there should be lots of images...
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    The-thing-next-door

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:58 am

    If you search for that all you get is WWII era naval turrets.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:16 am

    Seems to be not widely available... I have cross section drawings of Coalition in the land and sea based forms but the detail is not very clear and of course being drawings we don't actually know how accurate they actually are...





    hoom

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  hoom on Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:58 am

    Worth noting the 90rpm is the combined output for the twin mount so a somewhat more sedate 45rpm per-barrel.
    I think there isn't anything particularly special in the system, most modern automatic naval guns seem to use very similar system.

    This vid has some footage of the ammo carousel in action (I think I've seen this in better quality previously but not sure where)


    To get the round from the vertical to horizontal there is presumably a similar system to the one seen here on OTO Melara guns from 5:10

    and

    Arm rotates down to the vertical, grabs a round, swings back up in line with the barrel then rammed in.

    Rammer is presumably a chain rammer which have been standard in naval guns for a long time & are used in Russian tank auto-loaders. (handy because it means you don't need a huge hydraulic ram sticking out behind the gun)


    Personally I've had a hard time understanding how these work & I think only got my head round it while typing this post scratch
    Trick is its a chain with links designed so it can only bend one direction, lying flat against the rigid loading tray & with the force axis kept below the pins, the chain stays rigid during ramming but bends round the corner when lifted from below by the curve of the storage canister.
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    The-thing-next-door

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:57 pm

    Ah I see so naval guns use an arm that rotates around the same axis as the gun elevation mechanism. That is actually how I used to believe Russian tank autoloaders worked before I knew about the elevation reset of the barrel to 0 degrees inbetween shots.

    hoom

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  hoom on Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:57 pm

    The tank autoloaders store rounds horizontally so the mechanism is different.


    Armata is said to have vertical rounds/90deg autoloader though

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    The-thing-next-door

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:22 pm

    hoom wrote:The tank autoloaders store rounds horizontally so the mechanism is different.


    Armata is said to have vertical rounds/90deg autoloader though


    Yes I already knew that I was just saying before I knew that I though it worked difforently.

    Anyway maby we should change this topic to "autoloading mechinisms in general".
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    KomissarBojanchev

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    The usefulness of the RBU-6000

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:44 pm

    Why is it that NATO ships stopped using unguided anti-submarine rockets after the hedgehog and exclusively went to using torpedos for ASW work since the 1960s, while Russian ships up to this day value this type of weapon in the form of the RBU-6000?

    Can anyone explain its seemingly extreme importance in Russian and soviet ASW doctrine that almost every Russian warship built has one of them slapped on? Is it assumed that most submarines will be detected just a few kilometers from the ship and that throwing as much explosives into the general area of the enemy sub is more effective than an ASW torpedo? Even if subs wait to get close to an enemy ship to launch their torpedoes, don't they always launch them beyond the range of the RBU-6000, at around 10-20km instead of 5-4km?


    I know there is a guided version shooting 90R rockets, so that increases its effectiveness. I know that the Grigoroviches and neustrashimiys only have the guided version. Will the udaloys, slavas, and gepards get one too?


    Or is anti-torpedo work the main raison-d'etre of the RBU-6000 in modern times? Have there been extensive tests done measuring the effectiveness of the RBU-6000 against torpedos. If yes, do we know its kill probability? Does the guided 90R rocket have a better kill probability against torpedoes. Is the RBU-6000 as effective as the paket as a an anti-torpedo countermeasure?
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    Isos

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  Isos on Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:28 pm

    It's mainly designed to attack torpedos with different sort of rockets.

    You can use it also against a sub if you manage to get in range by going fast on the sub or if you use it in shallow waters where detection range is reduced to 2 or 3 km and torpedos will be harder to operate in those waters I assume. Good weapon for ASW corvettes.

    What is good with this weapons is that once lunched you are pretty sure to hit the sub. It works like CIWS and lunch supersonic rockets at a target that is moving at 50 km/h. From a couple of km its just like firing with a sniper rifle at a ship. Its like 100% hit for sure. However torpedos are smaller and fast so who knows what Pk it has against them. But must be good if they use them on evry ship while it is a quite expensive system.

    Some western countries have their equivalent like Sweeden. But most of them think their "ability to be better than russian" and their jammers are enough.

    Now it is replaced by Paket NK which seems to be pretty good with longer range.

    Peŕrier

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  Peŕrier on Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:50 am

    RBU-6000 as stated by ISOS, born as an ASW weapon but evolved to an anti-torpedo defense system and it's now coming back to the ASW role.

    The real drawback of the system is that it works through salvos and it's an hardkill system, and in the west it was deemed more effective to lure an incoming torpedo away from its intended target by decoys, but it is universally judged a very effective anti torpedo weapon.

    It is judged being highly effective against wire-guided torpedoes, because the wide shock inducted by several detonations should easily break the wire, and it's deemed quite well effective against the torpedoes themselves, even the fire and forget ones.

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    GarryB

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:16 am

    I have answered this question before on this forum... if you can't be bothered looking that up then I can't be bothered repeating myself here.

    Personally I think it is insulting to compare the Soviet system with hedgehog, but if you actually did a bit of research yourself before making such dumb statements you would not say such dumb things.
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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:01 am

    GarryB wrote:I have answered this question before on this forum... if you can't be bothered looking that up then I can't be bothered repeating myself here.

    Personally I think it is insulting to compare the Soviet system with hedgehog, but if you actually did a bit of research yourself before making such dumb statements you would not say such dumb things.

    Before. how long before? 2 years? If yes I can't find your explanation.
    Also I didn't compare the RBU-6000 to the hedgehogI said its the same weapon type(anti-submarine MLRS).

    Also, there is almost nothing detailing the actual usage of the RBU-6000. I looked for info. All it says on the internet is that its an ASW weapon together with its range stats, not actual tactics when using it or its effectiveness.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:02 am

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    George1

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  George1 on Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:36 pm

    A contract was signed for the purchase of the UET-1 torpedo for the Russian Navy

    As reported by the TASS agency on February 28, 2018, the Dagestan plant Dagdizel will build 73 torpedoes (UET-1) for the Russian Navy until 2023. The corresponding contract was signed on Wednesday by the head of the Department for Providing State Defense Order of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, Rear Admiral Andrei Vernigora and Director of Dagdizel Raul Ilyasov, the Russian military department said.



    533-mm electric torpedo UET-1E (OKH Ichthyosaur) for the development of Dagdizel Plant (c) Maxim Klimov


    "Now we are talking about 73 products, the cost of such a contract is 7.2 billion rubles, it will be in effect until 2023. The first products are planned to be delivered to the Russian Defense Ministry next year, but the contract will be advertised this year, therefore, the enterprise will begin serial production this year, "Lieutenant-General Anatoly Gulyaev, head of the Armed Forces General Directorate of Armed Forces, told reporters after signing the contract.

    "The contract is a long-term one, while it is a five-year period." Taking into account the completion of the installation of equipment and production, we hope that the enterprise will complete these works this year. "When confirming the output to full production capacity, the Defense Ministry will return to consideration of the issue of increasing the volume of purchases of these products," he said. .

    According to him, UET-1 - a new universal electric torpedo with improved combat and technical characteristics, it came to replace the obsolete self-guided electric torpedo USET-80.

    The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation specified that UET-1 is a torpedo caliber of 533 mm with a longer range than USET-80, higher speed and better detection of underwater targets. Among the features of the new product is the ability to detect the wake of surface ships and the possibility of smooth speed control.

    On the bmpd side, we recall that the 533-mm universal electric torpedo UET-1 was developed by the Dagdizel Plant (Kaspiisk) as part of the Ichthyosaur R & D, as well as the well-known material on the vicissitudes of the Ichthyosaur R & D and torpedo developers' struggle.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3107834.html

    http://eng.mil.ru/en/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12164690@egNews
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:29 am

    George1 wrote:A contract was signed for the purchase of the UET-1 torpedo for the Russian Navy

       As reported by the TASS agency on February 28, 2018, the Dagestan plant Dagdizel will build 73 torpedoes (UET-1) for the Russian Navy until 2023. The corresponding contract was signed on Wednesday by the head of the Department for Providing State Defense Order of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, Rear Admiral Andrei Vernigora and Director of Dagdizel Raul Ilyasov, the Russian military department said.


    so one torpedo like 100,000 Rubles ~ 1,8 mln USD





    George1 wrote:
       "The contract is a long-term one, while it is a five-year period." Taking into account the completion of the installation of equipment and production, we hope that the enterprise will complete these works this year. "When confirming the output to full production capacity, the Defense Ministry will return to consideration of the issue of increasing the volume of purchases of these products," he said. .


    I hope otherwise ith productio rate 14 per year soon half of Russian subs will remind without torpedoes
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    George1

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  George1 on Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:35 pm

    Here we are with the production of the torpedo mentioned above

    Interesting shots of loading in Sevastopol on May 29, 2018 for a large diesel-electric submarine B-261 Novorossiysk of project 06363 of the Black Sea Fleet of the newest 533-mm electric torpedoes UET-1, developed for the Ikhtiozav R & D. The UE-1 torpedoes are identified by the reduced length of the torpedo and the characteristic shape of the head part.

    Recall that the 533-mm universal electric torpedo UET-1 was developed by Dagdizel Plant (Kaspiisk) as part of the Ichthyosaur R & D and is currently produced by this enterprise, being the newest domestic serial electric torpedo.In February 2018, that the plant "Dagdizel" received a contract worth 7.2 billion rubles for the manufacture of the Russian Navy 73 torpedoes UET-1 for the period up to 2023.



    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3262978.html

    slasher

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  slasher on Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:00 am

    Is this the 'fizik' torpedo being referred to or a different one?
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    Hole

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  Hole on Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:31 am

    From militaryrussia.ru

    Supposedly a failed test of Zircon back in 2015.




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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:49 pm

    slasher wrote:Is this the 'fizik' torpedo being referred to or a different one?

    to me looks lik eto different types

    electric, 25km range
    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2675097.html


    nothing about being electric, 50km range
    https://rg.ru/2018/10/31/rossijskie-podlodki-vooruzhili-torpedami-piatogo-pokoleniia.html

    and new one to replace Fizik - Case ( lokefor goodies one)
    Russian submarines will receive the latest torpedo "Case"


    hoom

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  hoom on Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:26 am

    Supposedly a failed test of Zircon back in 2015.
    Seems weird to test an ultra secret experimental missile so close to a village Suspect

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