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    Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

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    GarryB
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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:33 pm

    Interesting photos:








    What make them interesting to me is that the top photo is the first photo I have seen of an operational test of the ADS, which is a modified version of the A-91 assault rifle that can use specially designed underwater ammo and normal 5.45mm standard issue ammo from the same weapon. The special underwater ammo is said to be as effective as the specially designed stuff for the odd underwater weapons they used previously, while firing standard ammo with the same or better accuracy as the standard AK.

    The other photo shows the GSh-18 pistol that as shown functions normally underwater as it does on land.

    The question I would have is how effective are the short fat 9mm projectiles under water... perhaps they have developed new special ammo for them as well?

    Here is a better view of the ADS:


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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  Pervius on Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:47 pm

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MA1IFKwdAQ
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQLBW5Olm0c

    Shooting underwater isn't really effective with gunpowder.

    ....But water molecules line themselves up to a magnetic field. If you could induce a magnetic field with the water molecules lined up, and you have a monopole magnet for a bullet....in theory you could shoot underwater.

    Nobody has figured out how to make a monopole magnet yet. Figured that out and you revolutionize Naval warfare/ship propulsion.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_monopole

    Water molecules lining up to a magnetic field is interesting. As you line them up theres a release of energy. Get two glasses of water. Separate them by 1 foot. Take a multimeter and put one electrode in 1 glass of water, and drop the other electrode in the other. Set the multimeter to milliVolts/DC. Take your left hand and use three fingers and gently rub the left glass in one direction, either up or down. Only 1 direction. Faster you go the more voltage differential you see on meter.

    How is that possible? GLASS is in an insulator. Separated by 1 foot. Your hand is inducing a magnetic field on the water and the water molecules want to line up. Now take a magnet and do the same thing.

    You killed it. No more voltage. Not even if you try using your hand next. Why? Your magnet had a North Pole and South Pole which disrupted the water. Take your left hand and put a finger in glass, take your right and put in other glass at same time..."shorting" the water.

    OK....water now ready for programming again to show voltage difference if molecules get lined up again.

    Another neat experiment, take a magnet and throw it in a plastic cup with some water and freeze it. After it's frozen dump the icecube out. Notice the ice shows molecules in water lined up to magnetic field with ice arcs?


    Only way to "shoot" in water is with magnetic field technology. Master that and you could also fly in the air and then use same craft to fly into water..like UFO.

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:37 am

    Shooting underwater isn't really effective with gunpowder.

    Tell that to Naval Spetsnaz...

    APS full auto underwater assault rifle and SPP-1 underwater pistol:





    ....But water molecules line themselves up to a magnetic field. If you could induce a magnetic field with the water molecules lined up, and you have a monopole magnet for a bullet....in theory you could shoot underwater.

    Nothing to do with magnetics and everything to do with hydrodynamics.

    An M16 would be useless underwater in 5.56mm cal for the same reason an AK would be useless in 5.45mm cal. Both are small high velocity bullets that are designed to slow down quickly in water... human targets are 75% water. They are designed to dump their energy rapidly to have a greater effect on the target so they will travel no more than a metre or two in water.

    Slower bullets like pistol bullets are more effective because of their lower velocity and more solid bullet construction, but the ideal shape for moving through the water efficiently is a long slim shape like a knitting needle... or a torpedo.

    The best way to push an object through water is to separate the object from the water... in other words a rocket motor is inefficient at pushing a missile through water, but put a gas generator in the nose of the missile and it is pushing through air instead of water.

    Without a nose mounted gas generator ( as used on the 200Knt Shkval torpedo) the next best thing is to use nose tip shape to form an air bubble at the nose for the object to move with... it is called super cavitation.

    Only way to "shoot" in water is with magnetic field technology. Master that and you could also fly in the air and then use same craft to fly into water..like UFO.

    The APS and SPP-1 have been in operational service for decades.

    The new ADS uses a new type of ammo that is externally similar to standard 5.45mm ammo and when using standard ammo the ADS is as accurate as any normal rifle, but with the new ammo it can be used underwater to kill enemy frogmen or dangerous underwater creatures like jellyfish and sharks or dolphins trained by the enemy etc.

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:04 pm



    This rifle looks really cool.


    Forward ejection so you can use it left or right handed without getting hot shell cases in the face with no adjustment needed to change hands.
    Fires standard 5.45mm effective to 600m, but also fires special rounds designed to be fired underwater to effective ranges greater than the APS weapon it replaces (with the long needle like ammo).

    Replaces two weapons for navy divers... APS for underwater and into and out of water shooting, and the AK-74 for above water shooting at targets not in the water.

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  GarryB on Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:41 pm

    Russia Completes Testbed Trials of New Submarine Engine

    Russia Completes Testbed Trials of New Submarine Engine 02.12.2011
    Text: RIA Novosti
    Photo: rigapodplav.narod.ru
    Russia completes testbed trials of the crucially new engine for non-nuclear submarines – air-independent propulsion plant - and prepares to construct an experimental prototype, reports RIA Novosti referring to Director General of Sevmash shipyard and Rubin Design Bureau Andrei Diachkov.

    Earlier on, a high-ranking representative of Russian Navy Main HQ told to RIA Novosti that Russia was about to build submarines powered by radically new propulsion plant. At present, all Russian non-nuclear subs use diesel engines. "Rubin design bureau actively works on an air-independent propulsion plant with electrochemical generator. We've almost completed testbed trials and plan to show the project to Indian delegation this December", Diachkov said.

    As for him, experts of Rubin bureau have proved that obtainment of hydrogen on board a sub was technically possible. "This would make possible to produce hydrogen on board a sub instead of storing it like Germans do", said the Rubin's director general.

    Besides, he added that the prospective Russian air-independent propulsion plant would use standard diesel fuel and have no need of complicated servicing at base. "By the way, it has no motion parts, so acoustically is very advantageous", emphasized Diachkov.

    As for him, to implement such large-scale project as development of air-independent propulsion plant, a federal target program should be founded. "Soon Rubin would construct an experimental prototype, and that is very cost-consuming. Another solution is to work in cooperation with other companies", noted Diachkov.

    Source: http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=13779

    Very good news for the Russian sub industry... a modern and safe AIP makes conventional much more capable... and more like a nuke sub, though without the high underwater speed capability of course.

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  George1 on Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:55 pm

    Paket ASW system is RPK-9 Medvedka?

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    Paket ASW system is RPK-9 Medvedka?

    Post  Mindstorm on Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:32 am


    George1 wrote:Paket ASW system is RPK-9 Medvedka?


    No George , it is practically the unique hard kill anti-torpedo defence system now operative worldwide, naturally it mantain also a close range anti-submarine/saboteur capability





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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  George1 on Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:52 pm

    http://warfare.ru/?catid=312&linkid=2581&title=3r-14uksk

    UKSK delivery takes the form of the fully stocked cellar with a sealed individual fire suppression systems, water drainage and ventilation equipment, along with fire control system that greatly simplifies the installation of the complex on the ship and reduces time and eliminates the need to create specialized facilities for ship-cellars. Missiles are placed in the container or w/o container modular deck launchers of Vertical Launch (4 or 8 missiles in each module, depending on the version).
    Features:
    - The use of missiles complexes Oniks, 3M-54TE, 14TE-3M, 91RTE2 in any combination
    - Providing data for firing at surface, ground and underwater targets
    - Universal installation below deck for 4 or 8 missiles

    UKSK will have more than 1 Klub missile per cell?

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  Mindstorm on Sat May 12, 2012 4:32 pm


    The new naval air defence search/tracking and engagement system Poliment-Redut should complete testing phase with launchs directly from ships by year's end.



    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120512/173404790.html


    On a side note the article name also the other work-in-progress of Almaz-Antey ,among which also the airborne laser system ,which the company say promising.



    Almaz Antei is also working on new radars and missiles for its future land-based S-500 air defense system, he said.

    Russia is continuing to develop its "promising" airborne defense laser program, Menshikov said.

    “The Americans have not managed to achieve the planned results [in their airborne laser projects], although the technology… is still being used in other developments,” he said.

    Similar research work is under way in Russia, and we consider it quite promising,” he said.






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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  GarryB on Sun May 13, 2012 11:21 am

    Excellent news... poliment/redut was part of what was slowing the new frigates and the new destroyers they are working on.

    Poliment is the new AESA radar and Redut is a Vityaz based SAM system that is supposed to include a short range (10km or 6 mile or some times 6km range) lock on after launch IIR guided missile based on the land based Morfei and the Air Force 9M100 short range AAM, plus the S-300 and S-400 SAMs including the 40km and 120km range smaller missiles.

    Of course the 40km and 120km range models are export range figures and the Russian models could be 60km and 150km range weapons for all we know. It will also include the 400km range full sized missile too no doubt... if not at first then eventually.

    This is an important step in unifying the air defence component of the Russian navy... the UKSK system unifying the cruise missile/anti ship/land attack component for ships and subs.

    Regarding the Airborne laser it should be pointed out that the success of the Russian system and the cancellation of the US system are not technical or financial but design fundamental issues.

    The US system was to have a Boeing 747 fitted with a laser to fly within 400km of enemy ICBM or ballistic missile launch sites to defeat BMs are they climb from their launchers. Obviously very difficult and expensive as it would require placing a large vulnerable asset near enemy airspace on a 24/7 basis to be effective.

    The Russian design on the other hand has different goals... that of dazzling US EO systems on satellites and other unmanned and manned platforms.

    To be useful in that role it is much easier... you can fly the large vulnerable aircraft over your own BM launch sites and dazzle the EOptics of US and other satellites as they pass overhead... 5-6 minutes max every 90 minutes or so to conceal ground activity or BM launches...

    In more conventional warfare such a system could be used to damage IIR guided weapons and IRST and nagivation/attack pods that use thermal and EO ports. It could even be used to dazzle or blind bomber crews or fighter pilots from enormous distances... a 5 miliwatt laser can dazzle and we are talking about mega watt lasers... for those not familiar with such terms... mili means thousandths of a watt, while mega means millions of watts... a billion times difference in power...

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  TR1 on Sun May 13, 2012 1:40 pm

    Supposedly Redut on Soobrazitelny is not fully functional yet, so let's not get too happy yet.

    Though the entire Redut-Poliment system might actually work smoother on Gorshkov.

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  GarryB on Sun May 13, 2012 1:57 pm

    And Klinok wasn't functional on the first 4 Udaloy class vessels either... it was planned to have it, but the radar wasn't read in time for the ships, so they went to sea with them non operational.

    It will be the same in this case... the article you have posted states... as you said that they will have proper at sea tests this year.

    Once it has completed its test... assuming no major problems they can start fitting the full system to existing ships and new ships that are being delayed for the system.

    It is a bit like Bulava except for the fact that they are only doing sea trials now because the naval version of the land based system suffered from a shortage of qualified engineers to redesign and test it.

    They say they are now ready for at sea testing... which all sounds pretty good to me.

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  TR1 on Sun May 13, 2012 3:47 pm

    Yeah no doubt, it is a common situation both in Ru Navy and in foreign navies.

    But my worry is about Redut with the sensors on the 20380 in general, not so much the full Redut-Poliment suit on 22350.
    Hopefully 20385 is better this respect.

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  GarryB on Mon May 14, 2012 4:11 pm

    It is a new missile system and on the different vessels it is being integrated with different sensors...

    I rather suspect that the integration of both systems (corvette and frigate) will take a bit of work as previously Soviet and Russian systems have had all dedicated sensors and equipment and now they are using main sensors to supply data to a range of weapons.

    Obviously the Poliment/Redut combination needs some testing, as will the system on the Corvettes with the Redut SAM system, but it is not like they are landing on the moon for the first time... there will be problems and eventually it will work... this ain't their first rodeo...

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  Mindstorm on Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:24 pm



    Boris Obsonov ,General Director of Tactical Missile Corporation, announce at Гидроавиасалоне-2012 that plans to increase both range and speed of the already outstanding underwater missile-torpedo "Squall" are actually in work in response to ever increasing interest ,by part of potential international buyers, toward this advanced weapon.


    http://vz.ru/news/2012/9/7/597040.html


    Other interesting points touched are the finished works for the export version of both the greatly improved models of air-lauched high speed anti-ship missile- Kh-31-AD- and antiradar missile Kh-31PD



    The last word , obviously to the development of Hypersonic Missiles defined by Boris Obsonov (....in the same way of any other knowledgeable, technical responsible in military field Rolling Eyes ) a truly crucial segment with immeasurable potential benefical returns in the Aerospace Civil sector.


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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  Austin on Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:49 pm

    So what is the next generation Squall is Russian Navy working on , I mean not the export model but what RuN uses , will it have guidance , higher speed and range ?

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  Mindstorm on Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:37 am

    , will it have guidance , higher speed and range ?


    Yes, its speed will be increased over that of the domestic version (superior to 500 Km/h) so will its range


    will it have guidance



    Will ? Sometime i remain surprised that some "notions" could become so rooted in common immaginary (for effect of an odd, foundless information repeated over and over ) even when it result completely irreconcilable not only with any rational inference ,but even only with mere common good sense.

    The only version of "Shkval" devoid of guidance (simply because it would have provided foreign entities with a deep understanding of the technical principles at the basis of the VA-111's propulsion ) was the export version that ,in fact ,was limited to 7 km engagement range (the maximum allowing a similar unguided cavitating torpedo to retain any type of effective operational employment) and only against surface targets.

    This is a brief article with some historical facts on VA-111's development ,by Alexander Karpenko ,which could aid at realize as, already in Soviet times VA-111 ,in its advanced incarnations, was obviously never conceived as an unguided weapon .


    http://vpk-news.ru/articles/3990






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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  TR1 on Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:22 am

    Has Squal ever been deployed on Russian subs post USSR?

    I believe no.

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  GarryB on Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:36 am

    Why wouldn't it be?

    AFAIK they are successful weapons that are fairly widely deployed.

    Note these are not the HTP powered torpedoes that destroyed the Kursk, AFAIK Shkval torpedoes are not powered by HTP, which is better known as hydrogen peroxide.


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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  George1 on Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:40 am

    First Submarine-Launched BrahMos Missile to Fly This Year

    First launch of submarine-based Russian-Indian cruise missile BrahMos will be carried out by the end of the current year, director of BrahMos Aerospace Dr. Sivathanu Pillai told ARMS-TASS at the 23-rd international exhibition Euronaval-2012.

    "We're going to perform the first submarine-based version of the missile by underwater testing platform by the end of the current year", Pillai said.

    As for him, that test launch will be a significant milestone in the BrahMos program, because right after that Indian Navy is to decide whether to arm India's prospective non-nuclear submarine with those missiles.

    According to a representative of the Rubin Design Bureau, Russia is ready to offer Amur-1650 submarine armed with either Club or BrahMos missile system.

    "So far, Indian partners have not brought up integration of BrahMos system into Amur-1650 which is participating in the Indian Navy's tender for prospective submarine 75I", said Andrei Baranov, deputy director of Rubin bureau for foreign economic activities.

    Presently, Russian project of the sub is equipped with Club missiles, well known in Indian Navy and launched by horizontal torpedo tubes. But if Indian partners desire to integrate vertical-launch attack missile system BrahMos, Russia is ready to redesign the project, Baranov said.

    "BrahMos will be placed inside Amur-1650 submarine as an additional compartment with vertical launchers", explained the Rubin's spokesman.

    "Amur and BrahMos are well-compatible, and we have worked hard on the submarine-missile architecture. So, if Indian party wants this sub to have BrahMos missiles, that would improve chance of Rosoboronexport in the 75I tender", he stressed.

    On the other hand, he added that issuing of the 75I tender had been postponed several times. According to the latest information, the tender can be announced in the next year, Baranov said.

    State-led JSC Rosoboronexport will offer perspective non-nuclear submarine Amur-1650 with air-independent powerplant for India's tender for procurement and license production of six non-nuclear subs.

    http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=16238

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  Austin on Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:01 pm

    Came across this Official Ratheyon video which shows USN Tomahawk Block 4 targeting RuN Cruiser and S-300 batteries

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wluabEE1ls8


    The capabilities of block 4 like loitering capability over target , Satcom communication and inflight retargetting are very nice , wish some day RuN Club has it as well

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  TR1 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:54 pm

    Runavy uses Kalibr, pretty sure it has Satcom link.

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  GarryB on Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:31 pm

    Granits used satcom links in the 1980s.

    Loiter near an enemy ship with a subsonic cruise missile... are you serious?


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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  Austin on Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:56 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Loiter near an enemy ship with a subsonic cruise missile... are you serious?

    Not really a ship but around land targets , Since Block 4 has MMW radar it can very well image a land target among clutter and while they loiter they also gather intelligence and relay it in real time via satcom or a UAV.

    Its more like Loiter , Gather Intelligence and then pounce on the target which were seems very critical from the intelligence gathered.

    Its a nice capability to have basicly they act like UAV closer to enemy but with ability to attack as well.

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  Viktor on Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:38 pm

    Austin wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    Loiter near an enemy ship with a subsonic cruise missile... are you serious?

    Not really a ship but around land targets , Since Block 4 has MMW radar it can very well image a land target among clutter and while they loiter they also gather intelligence and relay it in real time via satcom or a UAV.

    Its more like Loiter , Gather Intelligence and then pounce on the target which were seems very critical from the intelligence gathered.

    Its a nice capability to have basicly they act like UAV closer to enemy but with ability to attack as well.

    Good luck with that Very Happy Very Happy

    Shooting practice.

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