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    Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

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    jhelb
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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  jhelb on Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:00 pm

    GarryB wrote:The 152mm Coalition programme is a joint Army/Navy programme, though the navy model will likely retain the double barrel configuration as it does not need to fit inside an aircraft for transport...

    Garry, a couple of questions?

    1. Why is the Russian Navy going for a 152 mm gun whereas US and Chinese Navies are opting for 155mm/62 caliber guns?

    2. Does the Russian Navy have any guided ammunition like OTO Melara's VULCANO for their 76mm, 127mm naval guns?

    http://www.otomelara.it/products-services/guided-ammunition/vulcano-127mm

    3. Now that 155mm/62 caliber naval guns are available does the 127mm naval gun have any future?

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  2SPOOKY4U on Sun Jun 07, 2015 5:12 pm

    jhelb wrote:
    GarryB wrote:The 152mm Coalition programme is a joint Army/Navy programme, though the navy model will likely retain the double barrel configuration as it does not need to fit inside an aircraft for transport...

    Garry, a couple of questions?

    1. Why is the Russian Navy going for a 152 mm gun whereas US and Chinese Navies are opting for 155mm/62 caliber guns?

    2. Does the Russian Navy have any guided ammunition like OTO Melara's VULCANO for their 76mm, 127mm naval guns?

    http://www.otomelara.it/products-services/guided-ammunition/vulcano-127mm

    3. Now that 155mm/62 caliber naval guns are available does the 127mm naval gun have any future?


    1. 155mm is the caliber chosen by NATO, Russia chose something else. Both have to do with what they adopted during WW2.

    2. Yes, Krasnopol, along with the controlled drag fuse they showed with Koalitsiya.

    3. No.

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  Vann7 on Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:52 am

    jhelb wrote:
    GarryB wrote:The 152mm Coalition programme is a joint Army/Navy programme, though the navy model will likely retain the double barrel configuration as it does not need to fit inside an aircraft for transport...

    Garry, a couple of questions?

    1. Why is the Russian Navy going for a 152 mm gun whereas US and Chinese Navies are opting for 155mm/62 caliber guns?

    2. Does the Russian Navy have any guided ammunition like OTO Melara's VULCANO for their 76mm, 127mm naval guns?

    http://www.otomelara.it/products-services/guided-ammunition/vulcano-127mm

    3. Now that 155mm/62 caliber naval guns are available does the 127mm naval gun have any future?



    I think that..
    All those decisions are largely based on probable conflicts /wars and scenarios.
    When Hitler invaded RUssia.. Russia had to build their artillery to a different caliber to the one Germany used. Why? so that if Germany capture a munition depot from Russia ,they cannot
    use it in their own artillery.  Even the Rails of the train in Russia were done incompatible with the rails of germany trains.. to not allow them use their trains in Russia territory.. and this delayed a lot Germany transportation with trains in Russia.  because rails had to be redone again.

    This is why Russia assault rifles ,Tank guns ,and Artillery guns will always use a different caliber
    munition than the NATO one. If China use same caliber of NATO , it had to be because they are not expecting NATO to invade CHina ever again after they kicked NATO from North korea ,in the korean war. you cannot defeat China in their land with pure man power, they will overwhelm your forces as they did in North Korea to NATO.. and with inferior weapons. So probably China use same caliber of NATO because they expect they will be forced to invade Taiwan or another
    island to fight NATO and they will benefit of using the same caliber of NATO munition. Because
    they know they have superior man power and can break through any army force. Russia is purely defensive nation and cannot rely in numbers of man power and is never bad to prepared for worse case scenario of being invaded again by a pro NATO large force.. being forced to take advantage of its vast terrain ,and force the enemy to over extend its supply lines as was world war 2 vs Germany.. so any munition storage depot lost will be useless to the enemy.

    Interestingly Russia assault rifle AK-12 support multiple caliber ,including NATO ones..
    means that their special forces could operate in any part of Europe and ressupply munition
    using the one capture from NATO forces ,killed in combat.

    but the munition storages they build in Russia are focused on Russian official munition caliber . So if for example  any Chechens are armed with advanced weapons from abroad with NATO weapons ,they will be unable to take advantage of taking control of a munition depot. Because of incompatibility with their NATo weapons.

    All this strategic decisions are thinking in the worst possible scenario..that they cannot use nuclear weapons for x or y reasons.  The simplicity manufacturing of their assault rifles is aimed to make it easier for civilians without combat experience ,in no time to take a rifle and help the mother land. Reason why low maintainance is also important.. Rifles that are idiot proof and can operate  in the hands of normal patriotic civilians for months without cleaning.

    T-72s follows this doctrine ,cheap ,easy to use ,easy to maintain ,easy to repair..
    Armata/Pak-fa in the other hand completely change this. For a different scenario of clean wars
    against Modern weapons from NATO.  So is a risk in terms of price and cost and training.. So i suspect Russia probably will Upgrade T-90 armor and use them as their backbone tank in low level conflicts either Ukraine or Terrorism. and use Armata only when they see Modern NATO tanks in the conflict or modern weapons.  

    So Russia will be good..combining old and new weapons . I do see their T-72s also upgraded
    its armor and mostly used against terrorist fighters.. each tank will have its place in the battlefield. Probably T-72s could be deployed even in the artic.. ask any NATO nations to do that with their tanks with lost of electronics and computer screens..  Electronics and sensors will break in that cold..   Smile But this is also true for ARmata.. but fortunately Russia have lots of Tanks about 15,000 T-72s , according to global fire power that will work even in case of a nuclear conflict ,if not direct hit and not near the place of the bombing.

    The perfect combination is to have both weapons for extreme environment and long conflicts
    and weapons for short duration conflicts again modern armies.
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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:14 pm

    1. Why is the Russian Navy going for a 152 mm gun whereas US and Chinese Navies are opting for 155mm/62 caliber guns?

    Because 152mm is a Soviet/Russian calibre... whereas 155mm is a western calibre... just the same as 130mm and 100mm are also Russian Naval calibres, while the west uses 114mm and 127mm gun calibres as equivalents.

    2. Does the Russian Navy have any guided ammunition like OTO Melara's VULCANO for their 76mm, 127mm naval guns?

    http://www.otomelara.it/products-services/guided-ammunition/vulcano-127mm

    Yes... 130mm and 152mm... the latter likely being the standard round and will likely have the same range and performance as the land based model... ie 10m CEP and up to 70km range.

    3. Now that 155mm/62 caliber naval guns are available does the 127mm naval gun have any future?

    the bigger the gun the heavier it is, the more space it takes up on the vessel. It is likely there will be situations where a smaller boat wont be big enough to carry a 155mm gun but will have room/capacity to have a 127mm gun.

    For the Russians this is blurred as the new 100mm guns they have developed and fitted to their corvettes are the size and weight of the older 76.2mm guns, so they have a 76.2mm gun sized weapon with the fire power and performance of the 100mm guns. they have also developed a 130mm gun with the footprint of a 100mm gun, and clearly they have Coalition as well which is a 152mm gun, which they have not had in naval service since the Sverdlov was reactivated as a naval gunfire support ship.

    Obviously the Coalition twin gun weapon should be more effective and efficient than a triple barrel manually loaded 152mm gun turret.... or two.

    When Hitler invaded RUssia.. Russia had to build their artillery to a different caliber to the one Germany used. Why? so that if Germany capture a munition depot from Russia ,they cannot
    use it in their own artillery.

    Well that didn't work as the Germans used plenty of Russian artillery types in their units includihng 76.2mm guns and 120mm mortars.

    Even the Rails of the train in Russia were done incompatible with the rails of germany trains.. to not allow them use their trains in Russia territory.. and this delayed a lot Germany transportation with trains in Russia.  because rails had to be redone again.

    That was not done on purpose... they just developed their rail networks separately and they were not compatible... the problems the Germans had on the way in were the same as the Soviets on the way out.

    This is why Russia assault rifles ,Tank guns ,and Artillery guns will always use a different caliber
    munition than the NATO one.

    NATO countries have standardised ammo because they have rules regarding ammo types to make sure they are compatible. Russia and the Soviet Union didn't follow the same rules and have different ammo standards.

    If an enemy enters your territory and runs out of ammo they could simply pick up a local weapon and ammo...


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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  jhelb on Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:25 pm

    GarryB wrote: and clearly they have Coalition as well which is a 152mm gun, which they have not had in naval service since the Sverdlov was reactivated as a naval gunfire support ship.

    Obviously the Coalition twin gun weapon should be more effective and efficient than a triple barrel manually loaded 152mm gun turret.... or two.

    Garry, one of the major issues that the 152mm gun on board Russian Cruisers/Destroyers may face is that they will have a range of less than 30 miles, and the rocket propellant needed to reach this far and the guidance system leaves little room for explosives in the projectile. Ideally when you have a 152mm you would want to go beyond 100 miles.

    The US Navy is facing this problem with the Zumwalt class.The US Navy tested a 5-inch (127mm) Extended Range Guided Munition (ERGM) for a decade with poor results. Its projectile was mostly guidance and rocket propellant, so it had room for only 19 lbs of submuntions at a cost of $50,000 a round. ERGMs may be useful against a few high-value targets, but are too expensive for general use, their GPS guidance can be jammed, and their warhead is far too small.
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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  jhelb on Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:17 am

    2SPOOKY4U wrote:
    3. No.

    But then there are a lot of technical problems with 155mm guns. So I think Navies will have to stick with 127mm for the time being.
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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:52 am

    You are contradicting yourself...

    Garry, one of the major issues that the 152mm gun on board Russian Cruisers/Destroyers may face is that they will have a range of less than 30 miles, and the rocket propellant needed to reach this far and the guidance system leaves little room for explosives in the projectile. Ideally when you have a 152mm you would want to go beyond 100 miles.

    So the major issue you say, is that it lacks range, and that when range is extended by increasing propellent and adding base bleed and rocket boosting there is no room for sufficient explosive... and then you say it needs even more range...

    First of all naval gun support is largely for use with landing operations or hitting small targets that don't warrant a missile.

    Where the need for 160km range comes from I don't know, but you yourself suggest that such ranges leads to pathetic payloads... which makes the whole purpose of the system redundant.

    The Russians have a range of guided munition options, some of which are cheap, and others are not so cheap, but range is not what you compare with payload... accuracy and the target are teh important things when considering payload. Even the lightest payload will be effective if the CEP is less than 1 metre and the target is soft. A super heavy bunker will require a large payload no matter what the accuracy is.... and everything in between.

    For a decent naval gun support gun, I personally think the old 203mm guns on a specialised vessel would be the best basis but it would be great for the navy it would not really be so much use for the army... the army unit doesn't control that much area so having 160km range guns just means they are shelling their neighbours target or they never use their guns to their max range.

    Note the Russians are getting extended ranges from new propellent and EM assistance as part of the gun design... by going for conservative ranges they get guidance and good range without having to give up payload... perhaps it is the US that is being stupid?  All that extra range and their rounds can  still be shot down by Klintock.

    ERGMs may be useful against a few high-value targets, but are too expensive for general use, their GPS guidance can be jammed, and their warhead is far too small.

    So your logic is that if the USN can't do it, the Russians shouldn't even bother?

    The US Army decided that tank gun launched guided missiles were a dead end too because their system was a terrible failure... the Russians were much more practical in their approach and that resulted in a new system that could be added to existing vehicles... ie they created a new range of ammo instead of some super missile tank.


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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  jhelb on Tue Jun 09, 2015 11:07 am

    GarryB wrote:You are contradicting yourself...

    So the major issue you say, is that it lacks range, and that when range is extended by increasing propellent and adding base bleed and rocket boosting there is no room for sufficient explosive... and then you say it needs even more range...

    The thing is Navies need a 152mm or 155m gun to hit at ranges of 100 miles or more. However, to do that the projectiles will need a lot of propellant. This extra propellant will reduce the room for sufficient explosives.

    This is why me think the 152 mm/ 155mm naval gun is still work in progress.


    GarryB wrote:The Russians have a range of guided munition options, some of which are cheap, and others are not so cheap, but range is not what you compare with payload... accuracy and the target are teh important things when considering payload. Even the lightest payload will be effective if the CEP is less than 1 metre and the target is soft. A super heavy bunker will require a large payload no matter what the accuracy is.... and everything in between.

    The biggest problem with guided projectiles is that they can be jammed.


    GarryB wrote:Note the Russians are getting extended ranges from new propellent and EM assistance as part of the gun design... by going for conservative ranges they get guidance and good range without having to give up payload...

    Will appreciate if you can elaborate on this development.


    GarryB wrote:For a decent naval gun support gun, I personally think the old 203mm guns on a specialised vessel would be the best basis

    The shock and the weight of the 203mm will strain the ship.
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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  George1 on Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:09 am

    Naval Pantsir-M




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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:56 am

    Nice.... and what a potent system... out to 20km range and down to 2m above the waves and 15,000m up for the missiles... that is a huge envelope of protection...


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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  TheArmenian on Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:44 am

    Model of the Naval Pantsir at The Naval Show in St. Petersburg.
    More photos coming up in the Navy Thread.

    Mods.
    In my opinion this thread should be merged with the other one. We have too many threads and it makes the forum less user friendly as members have to follow too many threads.



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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  George1 on Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:36 pm

    In Russia, developing universal launchers for ships


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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  George1 on Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:39 pm

    In Russia, are developing a new version of the ship's MLRS "Grad"

    Scientific-Production Enterprise "Start" is considering the possibility of establishing on the basis of MLRS "Grad-M" with a launcher MS-73m, the general director Maxim Group Kuzyuk.

    MOSCOW, July 7 - RIA Novosti. Scientific Production Enterprise "Start", part of the group "technodynamics", is developing a new shipboard launcher, which will replace the ship's multiple launch rocket systems (MLRS) "Grad-M", told RIA Novosti on Tuesday, General Director Maxim Group Kuzyuk.

    Marine version of the MLRS "Grad" producing now on NPP "Start", was developed in 1969. "Grad-M" are mounted on amphibious ships to engage manpower and equipment of the enemy on the shore and support the actions of marines.

    "On the" Start "The possibility of the creation of on the basis of MLRS" Grad-M "(sea) from the launcher MS-73m - the universal launcher for missiles of various calibers and purposes. Preliminary work has already been done," - said Kuzyuk.

    Director-General of the Group added that due to the expected extension of a series of landing craft air cushion "Zubr", the company will also consider the possibility of the resumption of production and modernization of the incendiary flame-ship complex of MS-227 "Fire."

    "In the case of the modernization of the state defense order the launcher will be inevitable," - said Kuzyuk.


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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  George1 on Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:57 pm

    Paket-E Anti-Submarine System on corvette Boikiy






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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  JohninMK on Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:57 pm

    A state-of-the-art artillery system and anti-torpedo complex are being added to Russia’s naval arsenal, media reports said Friday. Both systems can be found on the four naval corvettes now guarding Russia’s maritime border with six more such ships now under construction, Zvezda TV reported. “The Project 20380 corvettes carry an A-192 cannon and a one-of-a-kind anti-torpedo system,” Navy Commander Admiral Viktor Chirkov said.

    The А-192 is a spinoff of the AK-130 gun and uses the same munitions. Its new fiber-electronic module detects targets up to 60 km away, while the onboard computer can simultaneously track four targets. The F-192-5P-10E 130mm artillery complex can be installed on just about any type of ship and is used against aerial, ground and naval targets, including anti-ship cruise missiles. It fires its shells up to 30 times per minute 18 to 23 kilometers away depending on the target.

    The Paket E/NK long-range antitorpedo unit — the only such system around — can destroy enemy submarines miles away and if the enemy shoots first, the system’s 320 mm torpedoes can destroy the oncoming “fish” 1,400 meters from the ship. Its M-15 antitorpedo boasts an underwater speed of up to 50 kilometers an hour. Its movement is initially controlled by an onboard inertial system, which later shuts off and an acoustic active-passive self-homing system kicks in. The anti-torpedo’s warhead, packed with high strength blasting explosive of 80 kg of TNT, is equipped with a proximity detonator and is capable of destroying enemy torpedoes at various depths. At the depth of 800 meters the M-15 can knock out an oncoming torpedo as close as 100 meters away.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150731/1025262183.html#ixzz3hTeGOhkt
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    Gibka with 9M120 Missile Family

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:05 am

    Gibka with 9M120 Missile Family



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    Russian Naval Technology

    Post  x_54_u43 on Sun Sep 20, 2015 11:54 pm

    I wanted to post some interesting pictures, but I did not know where to put them, so I will make this thread for these images, and anyone who has something new or interesting about Russian Naval Technology they can post it here.

    So here are some interesting pictures. All pertain to Russian Navy Technology, but are rather broad in their specific topic. Enjoy.























    I will post more pictures as these in the future, and will do the same for others, like space and land and air and such.
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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  x_54_u43 on Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:10 am

    More Interesting Photos






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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  x_54_u43 on Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:27 am

    More Photos































    Maybe next I will do my collection of interesting photos for airforce and army.
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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:39 am

    The development of the defense industry to protect Russian ships from detection systems
    The Corporation will station a new visual optical interference on the "Days of Innovation"



    The combined instrument-making corporation created station visual optical interference "Rook" to protect warships at night and twilight. The instrument, "dazzling" manpower and optical devices of the enemy, to hide the landing, to protect people and the court on the impact of fire during combat operations.

    "Developments in this direction is our pilot plant" Integral ", - said the deputy director of DIC Sergei Skok. - Ship station "Grach" is designed for installation on surface ships of the 2nd class, including amphibious, air-cushion vessels, hydrofoil ships, various boats. "

    According to Sergei Skokov, using high-intensity light station suppresses visual-optical and electro-optical observation and aiming devices. This ensures the protection of ships and personnel, performing tasks at sea or in the coastal zone. In fact, it is a powerful weapon that allows you to deal with serious offensive and defensive tasks, but at the same weapon - a non-lethal.

    "Rook" is effective during the night and at dusk. The station creates an interference light over a wide spectral range - ultraviolet, visible and infrared regions of the spectrum, disabling including night vision sights. The device is able to change the direction and width of the beam and in case of the need for point-specific objects.

    The device can also be used as a power device or a floodlight for transmitting light signal posts ranges meteorological visibility. The station has small dimensions, ensures continuous operation for several hours, while consuming little energy.

    "Today, a similar technique in Russia is not doing nobody foreign counterparts are unknown to us, - says Sergey Skok. - In the development of this huge potential, particularly export. It can be used in counter-terrorism operations, and anti antilanding defense. "Rook" - a very effective tool that allows you to reduce the loss of personnel and equipment, the ability to suppress the enemy, have a powerful impact on him, including psychological. This development may be required not only the navies of different countries, border services, and security forces, leading, for example, the fight against sea pirates. "

    Ship Station visual optical interference "Rook" will be shown at the international exhibition "Days of Innovation Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation", which will take place October 5-6 in the exhibition and congress center of the military-patriotic recreation park of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation "Patriot".

    http://rostec.ru/news/4517278

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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:51 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    The development of the defense industry to protect Russian ships from detection systems
    The Corporation will station a new visual optical interference on the "Days of Innovation"



    The combined instrument-making corporation  created station visual optical interference "Rook" to protect warships at night and twilight. The instrument, "dazzling" manpower and optical devices of the enemy, to hide the landing, to protect people and the court on the impact of fire during combat operations.

    "Developments in this direction is our pilot plant" Integral ", - said the deputy director of DIC Sergei Skok. - Ship station "Grach" is designed for installation on surface ships of the 2nd class, including amphibious, air-cushion vessels, hydrofoil ships, various boats. "

    According to Sergei Skokov, using high-intensity light station suppresses visual-optical and electro-optical observation and aiming devices. This ensures the protection of ships and personnel, performing tasks at sea or in the coastal zone. In fact, it is a powerful weapon that allows you to deal with serious offensive and defensive tasks, but at the same weapon - a non-lethal.

    "Rook" is effective during the night and at dusk. The station creates an interference light over a wide spectral range - ultraviolet, visible and infrared regions of the spectrum, disabling including night vision sights. The device is able to change the direction and width of the beam and in case of the need for point-specific objects.

    The device can also be used as a power device or a floodlight for transmitting light signal posts ranges meteorological visibility. The station has small dimensions, ensures continuous operation for several hours, while consuming little energy.

    "Today, a similar technique in Russia is not doing nobody foreign counterparts are unknown to us, - says Sergey Skok. - In the development of this huge potential, particularly export. It can be used in counter-terrorism operations, and anti antilanding defense. "Rook" - a very effective tool that allows you to reduce the loss of personnel and equipment, the ability to suppress the enemy, have a powerful impact on him, including psychological. This development may be required not only the navies of different countries, border services, and security forces, leading, for example, the fight against sea pirates. "

    Ship Station visual optical interference "Rook" will be shown at the international exhibition "Days of Innovation Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation", which will take place October 5-6 in the exhibition and congress center of the military-patriotic recreation park of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation "Patriot".

    http://rostec.ru/news/4517278


    Another Variant


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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  jhelb on Fri Oct 02, 2015 6:50 pm

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
    Another Variant

    Morpheus, can you please elaborate how these systems work to protect from detection. Thanks.
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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  x_54_u43 on Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:48 pm

    jhelb wrote:
    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
    Another Variant

    Morpheus, can you please elaborate how these systems work to protect from detection. Thanks.

    It's just a navalized DIRCM system, just like the Vitebesk-25 on the Ka52.

    EDIT: Seems like it is not only meant against missiles, but other sensors as well.
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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 03, 2015 7:46 am

    Like PAPV anti optical system... basically you scan with a low power laser looking for reflections that would indicate optical systems looking at you... pin point the source of all the optical systems and then direct rather more powerful lasers at those targets to damage them or the operator/sensor.


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    Morpheus Eberhardt
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    Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:08 am

    jhelb wrote:
    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
    Another Variant

    Morpheus, can you please elaborate how these systems work to protect from detection. Thanks.

    Jhelb,

    The system first detects optical threats, usually using an active laser-based optical sensor system. Once the detection is achieved, it suppresses the sensor with one or more beams that are targeted at the target optical sensors.

    The method of suppression can involve various power densities and in-band or out-of-band wavelengths.

    At the lower power density levels, the suppression is via jamming the sensor. For example, every element (pixel) in a run of-the-mill thermal imager incorporating a focal plane array (FPA) can be easily forced to undergo blooming to a saturation level via the action of the beam on the FPA or on its upstream optics. You don't even need a laser to make the thermal imagers bloom; other sources are also used in some countermeasure systems.

    At the higher power density levels, the suppression can involve temporary or permanent blinding of the sensors via thermal effects.


    Garry, you posted while I was writing mine. Smile


    Last edited by Morpheus Eberhardt on Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:18 am; edited 3 times in total

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