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    NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders

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    Werewolf
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    Re: NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:10 am

    The crucial point here is really that Russia is so lazy and so careful or maybe hesitating with reactions. It is bound to have a limited amount of Cruise Missiles, IRBM's and Tactical Nukes. This limitation makes the entire situation and plan or lets call it for what it is Operation Unthinkable, a numbers game. Lets be very generous to NATO's ABM and Anti-Aircraft capabilities. Let us awesome the US has made its preperations since years and have build up entire ABM shield in sufficient numbers (sufficient numbers i will come to that), let us be another time generous of the capability of those SAM's and ABM shields against IRBM and Cruise Missiles is good enough to be almost immune to older generations without advanced ECM and flight trajectory changing to avoid interception. MEaning...they have planned the attack for decades, all their Meatshields are on alert and ready, the US initiates its proxy move and at some point, unlikely to be early from the start of the hot war, russia will have to respond, it will fight for quite some time this proxy war (ukraine) is first wave and 2nd wave will be poles looking at their political sphere and russian hatred, so after some years of slow depleting proxy war, Russia with an unknown leader will have enough of this shit and do what they would do in such situation, trying to overcome ABM shields in europe and trying to destroy key points of logistics which are concentrated almost only in Germany. Germany strategically is absolutley crucial and important for both sides, Projection over Europe of west and east goes always through Germany it was like that during 18th century it is the same case in 20th and 21ct century. So losing entire germany for russia is not an option. They will rely on strategy of defeating ABM shields and logistical key points in Europe and essentially germany.

    Some numbers before here have been posted of the IRBM and ICBM's in russian inventory, for this kind of operation we can only suggest IRBM's and Cruise Missiles. Right now there is only one type of IRBM useful to overcome ABM and SAM without first dealing with ABM/SAM itself that would be Iskander-M which can change its flight trajectory, the rest of the current in active service missiles have no such feature, so giving the american Euromeatshield generoustiy to defeat any other type of missile would leave Russia with less then 100 IRBM's for this job. Statistically speaking this ABM shields can indeed cripple russia to such an extent it would need to rely on ICBM use in Europe against countries which are not possible to lose for short nor long term future. Nuking military assets is one thing, using Strategic weapons there were designed to be used against US is a total different thing, that will only bring more russophobia to europe and it would defeat its own future with Germany, since the greatest threat to the US is not China and Russia united but Germany and Russia united. The projection of political and economical power of these so called 1st World is Germany, call it indoctrination, call it self-evident century old perception whatever, that are the circumstances.

    I guess it was franco who has posted a short list of Russias inventory of ICBM's, IRBM's /SSBM's and Cruise Missiles and the numbers of advanced BM's is very short, short enough to deal even with a backwarded ABM and SAM sytems like the Americans.

    If franco could provide again the numbers, we could see it even clearer what i mean. One of those numbers was just as 88 high of advanced Ballistic Missiles. So if this circumstances and reluctant reaction of russia stays the same with the same low numberes of advanced IRBM's,ICBM's, SSBM's and Cruise Missiles then it will end in a totalitarian war and exchange of ICBM's or a decade long war with only one benefiter, once again...
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    Re: NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Jun 06, 2015 2:32 am

    There will be no winner in 3rd world war except cockroaches I am afraid. But there is also good news. As long as MAD is in place no major war can take place. In case of total war bombing Germany or other countries do not matter. That´s why US wants to scale down Russia´s nuclear arsenal and use combination PGS/ABM and possibly bio-warfare (guess why Russia has put so much effort in Ebola vaccine?) to disarm Russia. The only way I can see in military dimension is to build up nuclear deterrent.

    - large numbers of relatively cheap, nuclear capable missiles flying at non ballistic trajectories with maneuvering warheads (say either Iskander on steroids 1000-1500km Romania and Poland till Germany in reach) or modular system like Rubezh with scaled down range (till Cabo de Roca) and as many as to making EU part of MAD.

    - build up hypersonic missiles with if not global then continental reach (EU ABM and US fleet with ABM)

    - return to FOBS concept with Sarmat instead of Voevoda
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional_Orbital_Bombardment_System

    - increase investments into info warfare (RT on steroids suporting local civil rights and ethic divisions in West:)

    - invest in Sarmats to ensure erasing US from map just in case

    About Russofobia I would not care so much, as hate propaganda is controlled by corpo news form one place. Then EU citizens would still have little chance to vote for different govts... to avoid Armageddon. Besides ere RT is best weapon.

    I am not sure if before financial collapse of US all this can be implemented. Surging wave of hatery in US led media is best proof that collapse is closer and closer

    http://www.usdebtclock.org

    officially 61 trillion USD. They cannot and will not pay back. EU is not worse really . Money after looting Eastern Europe run out...that´s why IMHO Uncle Pu is spending so heavily on rearmament programme. the only thing that keeps bandits at bay.

    As for Germany, with all my sympathy to Germans they are no match to power of Asia. Germans under US occupation 70 yrs ar on suicide course where Germans are being replaced by non-integrable immigrants who seem hate local culture and traditions. Besides Germany is way to small market to live only form Russia an German but China itself is enough not to mention India/Iran or Latin America. west in not really needed in this equation.

    China is partner not to be replaced for foreseeable future ideally when Iran and India join the club.









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    Re: NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:53 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:

    Then more cruise missiles are needed as those ABM's cannot deal with Cruise missiles.  At the same time, more S-300V4's, S-400s and S-500's eventually to help protect Russia from NATO Missiles.  At same time, striking hard and lots at military instillations that would be protecting ABM sites would be needed, so missiles like cruise missiles would be enough, especially with modern high explosive warheads.  Hopefully systems much like Iskander but carrying more than 4 or 6 Klub missiles could be considered to strike the positions.  Having enough of them with the ability to work remotely, I would say would give Russia the benefit of being able to strike very hard.  Since they would be based within the country or Kaliningrad, they could effectively strike at any country in eastern Europe, that would be basing these ABM sites and missiles sites.  Poland for example.  In Crimea, they would be able to strike Romania quite easily.

    As well, hopefully Russia goes for non nuclear based ICBM systems carrying special type of warheads of heavy high explosives to be able to build them, store them and use them much cheaper than nuclear.

    Cruise missiles to hit ABM make little sense - US nuke salvo is already half way to Russia and you prey so at lease one club hits ABM?

    I strongly believe that multi warhead IRBM/MRBM/SRBM flying on non ballistic trajectory with maneuvering warheads is bet option. Fast delivery (iskander 8-9 Ma vs  0,9 Ma Klub)  makes it weapon of choice.

    And yes Russia must watch also budget but I am pretty sure that Rubezh is modular and Iskander had in construction phase option to grow on steroids Smile


    Gunship

    ABM's cannot counter cruise missiles or at least not effectively as ABM systems fly at a very high altitude but not low altitude.  Cruise missiles fly at a low altitude.  They are cheap too, and would be able to build enough in shorter time period than a BM.  That is why Russia is investing in new anti radiation cruise missiles.  Kh-58 I believe is the model.

    US ABM system isn't going to be deployed in large numbers, and even if they do, it wont be effective anyway.  Especially if the BM in Russia are located far away anyway.  Iskanders is ideal but they lack the range at the moment.  And if in case the INF treaty does go bunk, they will most likely invest far more money in Iskanders and advancing them with much longer ranges.

    ICBM's are Russias main deterrent.  And if Russia gets a glimps that US launches their BM (Which they will detect as soon as they are launched) they will launch theirs and no ABM system will protect them 100%.  So yeah.

    Cruise missiles are actually a major threat to most countries and only few have abilities to counter them, Russia being one of them.  So yeah.  And that is the other thing, the US will have their (which will be Tomohawks of course), and Pantsir's and Tor's will be stationed to deal with them.  They may not be able to deal with a swarm of it, but that goes for US systems as well.

    Let us also add, they can overwhelm the systems at time they launch their ICBM's as well.
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    Re: NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:49 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:

    Then more cruise missiles are needed as those ABM's cannot deal with Cruise missiles.  At the same time, more S-300V4's, S-400s and S-500's eventually to help protect Russia from NATO Missiles.  At same time, striking hard and lots at military instillations that would be protecting ABM sites would be needed, so missiles like cruise missiles would be enough, especially with modern high explosive warheads.  Hopefully systems much like Iskander but carrying more than 4 or 6 Klub missiles could be considered to strike the positions.  Having enough of them with the ability to work remotely, I would say would give Russia the benefit of being able to strike very hard.  Since they would be based within the country or Kaliningrad, they could effectively strike at any country in eastern Europe, that would be basing these ABM sites and missiles sites.  Poland for example.  In Crimea, they would be able to strike Romania quite easily.

    As well, hopefully Russia goes for non nuclear based ICBM systems carrying special type of warheads of heavy high explosives to be able to build them, store them and use them much cheaper than nuclear.

    Cruise missiles to hit ABM make little sense - US nuke salvo is already half way to Russia and you prey so at lease one club hits ABM?

    I strongly believe that multi warhead IRBM/MRBM/SRBM flying on non ballistic trajectory with maneuvering warheads is bet option. Fast delivery (iskander 8-9 Ma vs  0,9 Ma Klub)  makes it weapon of choice.

    And yes Russia must watch also budget but I am pretty sure that Rubezh is modular and Iskander had in construction phase option to grow on steroids Smile


    Gunship

    ABM's cannot counter cruise missiles or at least not effectively as ABM systems fly at a very high altitude but not low altitude.  Cruise missiles fly at a low altitude.  They are cheap too, and would be able to build enough in shorter time period than a BM.  That is why Russia is investing in new anti radiation cruise missiles.  Kh-58 I believe is the model.

    US ABM system isn't going to be deployed in large numbers, and even if they do, it wont be effective anyway.  Especially if the BM in Russia are located far away anyway.  Iskanders is ideal but they lack the range at the moment.  And if in case the INF treaty does go bunk, they will most likely invest far more money in Iskanders and advancing them with much longer ranges.

    ICBM's are Russias main deterrent.  And if Russia gets a glimps that US launches their BM (Which they will detect as soon as they are launched) they will launch theirs and no ABM system will protect them 100%.  So yeah.

    Cruise missiles are actually a major threat to most countries and only few have abilities to counter them, Russia being one of them.  So yeah.  And that is the other thing, the US will have their (which will be Tomohawks of course), and Pantsir's and Tor's will be stationed to deal with them.  They may not be able to deal with a swarm of it, but that goes for US systems as well.

    Let us also add, they can overwhelm the systems at time they launch their ICBM's as well.

    It should also be noted (and GarryB can back me up on this) that Russian manpad's such as Igla-S, and soon to be unveiled June 15-16 at 'Army-2015', the next gen manpad 'Verba', are capable of destroying low flying cruise missiles (like the ones the US will redeploy to Europe), and that Russia also developed (I posted Rostec articles on this development) low-horizon radars (such as 'Outpost') that have signal processing that are capable of tracking 50 low-flying targets at a time, at 20 km distance, and only needs a minimum of 30 centimeters to differentiate between two low flying targets, that are likely capable of being integrated in to manpad teams:

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t2547p210-russian-radar-systems#69712
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    Re: NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders

    Post  max steel on Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:24 am

    1) what all low flying cruise missile usa posses except tomahawk ?
     

    2) If usa is deploying them in europe then why cant ruussia deploy it in cuba ? lacking balls perhaps .

    3) Does US posses igla , verba like manpad ? can you compare the efficiency of both rus and usa manpads .

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    Re: NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders

    Post  Cucumber Khan on Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:31 am

    max steel wrote:2) If usa is deploying them in europe then why cant ruussia deploy it in cuba ? lacking balls perhaps .

    Well, there is something called the "host country". Contrary to what some people think, Russia can't just place nuclear weapons in this country or a Tu-22M3 regiment in that country unilaterally. They need to get consent first. And that will not be easily had. Do Cuba even want to host nuclear weapons when they are working on developing better relations with the US? Not to mention Russias pretty strongly expressed demand that nuclear weapons should only be deployed in their own countries.

    "Lack of balls" has little to do with it. Too much balls and you risk having them cut off and stuffed in your mouth...
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    Re: NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders

    Post  max steel on Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:11 am

    Cucumber Khan wrote:

    Well, there is something called the "host country". Contrary to what some people think, Russia can't just place nuclear weapons in this country or a Tu-22M3 regiment in that country unilaterally. They need to get consent first. And that will not be easily had. Do Cuba even want to host nuclear weapons when they are working on developing better relations with the US? Not to mention Russias pretty strongly expressed demand that nuclear weapons should only be deployed in their own countries.




    US, Cuba Will Take a Long Time to Normalize Ties . Not until THEY return G'bay . If US deploys missile in Europe ( because europe is a prey and usa is host ) russia has right to retaliate and it can place missiles in cuba with cuban govt consent only . They didn't park nukes in cuba unilaterally in 1960s , it was done after taking their consent .

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    Re: NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:22 am

    max steel wrote:
    US, Cuba Will Take a Long Time to Normalize Ties . Not until THEY return G'bay . If US deploys missile in Europe ( because europe is a prey and usa is host ) russia has right to retaliate and it can place missiles in cuba with cuban govt consent only . They didn't park nukes in cuba unilaterally in 1960s , it was  done after taking their consent .


    So far Nicaragua agreed to hosts Russian military and Chinese canal a bit longer distance than Cuba (to Florida in virtually no time for Clubs or Iskanders) Smile
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    Re: NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:17 pm

    Regarding Igla vs cruise missiles the critical thing would be warning... with enough warning they should be effective.

    Note that they tested Igla against Malyutka (AT-3) ATGMs which are tiny missies and the results showed that of 9 attempts to engage 5 direct hits were achieved, which is impressive with such a small target. Of course that means that 4 out of 9 times the missile missed and because it does not have a proximity fuse then there was no interception.

    To correct this problem they developed the Igla-S which adds a proximity fuse, which one would assume would mean 9 out of 9 interceptions for small targets at low altitude.

    Verba presumably also has a proximity fuse so would also be very effective at shooting down small targets like cruise missiles with the appropriate warning... which would be provided by new radar and IADS.


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    Re: NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:59 pm

    Cucumber Khan wrote:
    max steel wrote:2) If usa is deploying them in europe then why cant ruussia deploy it in cuba ? lacking balls perhaps .

    Well, there is something called the "host country". Contrary to what some people think, Russia can't just place nuclear weapons in this country or a Tu-22M3 regiment in that country unilaterally. They need to get consent first. And that will not be easily had. Do Cuba even want to host nuclear weapons when they are working on developing better relations with the US? Not to mention Russias pretty strongly expressed demand that nuclear weapons should only be deployed in their own countries.

    "Lack of balls" has little to do with it. Too much balls and you risk having them cut off and stuffed in your mouth...

    Your exaggerating the reconciliation of US/Cuba relations, the US still refuses to return Guantanamo Bay back to Cuba (it turns out the US is o.k. with annexation of land, if they're doing the annexation lol1 ), in fact the whole reconciliation of relations smells incredibly fishy. Both the reconciliation and the first talks of US vacating the INF treaty happened within weeks of each other, no mere coincidence there, it's pretty obvious what the true goal is. I find it funny that you consider a 'carrot-on-a-stick' such as the U.S./Cuba reconciliation to be a huge deal, but not Russia possibly turning off the gas supplies to Europe if they harbor offensive nuclear weapons against them, or Russia declaring a 'debt payment moratorium' (maybe even supporting other European countries to follow) on European banks. Those are two options Russia could pull that would hold more gravitas than the 'carrot-on-a-stick' that the U.S. is offering to Cuba.

    Russia doesn't actually have to place any missiles in Cuba, they could just as easily place strategic jamming/ECM complexes such as 'Murmansk-BN' which is ridiculously powerful with a 5000 km range (covering a radius of 10,000 km's), in fact so powerful that it can jam/spoof any system in any part of the continental U.S.

    BTW Russia has options outside of Cuba, they have Venezuela, Nicaragua, and Ecuador, all countries with very hostile anti-American leadership/govts. So theoretically speaking Russia could place thermonuclear cruise missiles, IRBM's in Venezuela, Nicaragua, Ecuador, and Murmansk-BN's strategic ECM systems in Cuba, where the strategic ECM systems jam/spoof radars, SAM's, ABM's in U.S. territory (and in the Gulf of Mexico), while the cruise missiles and IRBM's are attacking from South America.

    P.S. the quickest way for Russia to change it's attitudes and positions on nuclear weapons is for the U.S. to abruptly abandon a 'strategic' treaty, such as the ABM treaty for example.
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    Re: NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders

    Post  max steel on Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:48 pm

    btw do us posses murmansk alike EW/ECM system ? they can deploy it in latvia or estonia isnt it ?

    Do americans work indigenously on their EW/ECM systems ? never heard much about yankees making revolution in EW field with new weapons jammers etc .
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    Re: NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:57 pm

    max steel wrote:btw do us posses murmansk alike EW/ECM system ? they can deploy it in latvia or estonia isnt it ?

    Do americans work indigenously on their EW/ECM systems ? never heard much about yankees making revolution in EW field with new weapons jammers etc .

    Murmansk-BN is a one of kind of system, and the field of ECM/ECCM is actually a field Russia leads the world in, which is no surprise considering that Russia had a several decades head-start in the field, over any other country for that matter. The earliest account of ECM tactics being employed in war was in 1904, Russo-Japanese war, the 'Defense of Port Arthur' where the Russians first demonstrated such ECM tactics:




    ...So basically the Russian military invented ECM warfare back in 1904.
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    Re: NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders

    Post  max steel on Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:04 pm

    and what about usa ew capabilities ? except neutron bomb do they have khilbiny murmansk etc etc like stuff ?

    their naval hornets posses jamming pods . other than yanks i guess israeli are good in ew systems . s-300 primitive model jamming in syria was a great move .
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    Re: NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:22 pm

    max steel wrote:and what about usa ew capabilities ? except neutron bomb do they have khilbiny murmansk etc etc like stuff ?

    their naval hornets posses jamming pods . other than yanks i guess israeli are good in ew systems . s-300 primitive model jamming in syria was a great move .

    That never happened, and the S-300's were never delivered to Syria...in fact if you want to see how effective Israeli ECM systems are, then look no further than when Bibi Nitwit-yahoo took a emergency trip to Moscow to beg Putin not to sell S-300's to Syria, the same ones he claimed could be easily defeated by Israeli ECM, and let's not forget the NATO exercises with Slovakians and their antiquated S-300 PMU's, in which NATO forces struggled (even in ideal conditions) to jam and spoof a living fossil of a system (and export version in fact) from the 1980's.

    The US MIC excels at 'power-projection' whether it be with tactical and strategic airlift, or with megacarriers, but has been falling behind the past few decades in fields such as SAM's, and ECM equipment. Almost all the US ECM equipment are fighter-plane based.
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    Re: NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:34 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote: That never happened, and the S-300's were never delivered to Syria...in fact if you want to see how effective Israeli ECM systems are, then look no further than when Bibi Nitwit-yahoo took a emergency trip to Moscow to beg Putin not to sell S-300's to Syria, the same ones he claimed could be easily defeated by Israeli ECM, and let's not forget the NATO exercises with Slovakians and their antiquated S-300 PMU's, in which NATO forces struggled (even in ideal conditions) to jam and spoof a living fossil of a system (and export version in fact) from the 1980's.

    The US MIC excels at 'power-projection' whether it be with tactical and strategic airlift, or with megacarriers, but has been falling behind the past few decades in fields such as SAM's, and ECM equipment. Almost all the US ECM equipment are fighter-plane based.

    What ECM do you need when bombing civilian Bedouins? To jam their radios so no music is in Oasis? Twisted Evil
    BTW If S-300 is soo bad what was problems with Iran Smile
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    Re: NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders

    Post  max steel on Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:45 pm

    US has deployed SM-3 Interceptors in Romania already . i saw the pictures you posted few days back . So what is Russia waiting for ? muricans crusaders are not interested in solving this issue amicably .
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    Lawmaker: Moscow can answer possible deployment of US nuclear missiles in Europe

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:05 pm

    max steel wrote:US has deployed SM-3 Interceptors in Romania already . i saw the pictures you posted few days back . So what is Russia waiting for ? muricans crusaders are not interested in solving this issue amicably .

    nope, Iskander-M new missile, OKA technology to create NEW tactical missile. So there are IMHO serious design work on SRBM or even IRBMs. Maybe really ¨short¨ Rubezh can be IRBM. Question how much cheaper it can be.
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    Re: NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders

    Post  max steel on Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:14 am

    NATO is Ready to Snatch Kaliningrad From Russia – Lithuanian Media


    According to hackers who got into the system of the Lithuanian Armed Forces, the small Baltic country is getting ready to annex Russia’s Kaliningrad region.
    A group of hackers broke into the system of the main office of the Lithuanian Armed Forces late Wednesday and found out that the little Baltic nation has big plans — to snatch Russia's Kaliningrad region, Lithuanian news portal Delfi reported.



    http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150611/1023226099.html#ixzz3d1gXZQxm

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    Re: NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Jun 14, 2015 3:13 pm

    max steel wrote:   NATO is Ready to Snatch Kaliningrad From Russia – Lithuanian Media


    According to hackers who got into the system of the Lithuanian Armed Forces, the small Baltic country is getting ready to annex Russia’s Kaliningrad region.
    A group of hackers broke into the system of the main office of the Lithuanian Armed Forces late Wednesday and found out that the little Baltic nation has big plans — to snatch Russia's Kaliningrad region, Lithuanian news portal Delfi reported.



    http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150611/1023226099.html#ixzz3d1gXZQxm


    Lol, they wouldn't be able to defeat Swiss Guard protecting the Vatican and they have just a few off them. Try to annex it, they will be vaporized by the ground forces and will get nasty little rocket up their rear called Iskander.
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    Re: NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders

    Post  collegeboy16 on Sun Jun 14, 2015 3:58 pm

    max steel wrote:   NATO is Ready to Snatch Kaliningrad From Russia – Lithuanian Media

    According to hackers who got into the system of the Lithuanian Armed Forces, the small Baltic country is getting ready to annex Russia’s Kaliningrad region.
    A group of hackers broke into the system of the main office of the Lithuanian Armed Forces late Wednesday and found out that the little Baltic nation has big plans — to snatch Russia's Kaliningrad region, Lithuanian news portal Delfi reported.

    military planners doing their job while infosec people failing at theirs- news at 11.


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    Re: NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders

    Post  Book. on Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:39 pm

    10 t55 prob kill Lithuna lol1
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    max steel
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    Re: NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders

    Post  max steel on Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:16 pm



    I GUESS NATO took it seriously



    Russia's Deceptively Weak Military

    Professional soldiers, equipped with the latest weaponry and body armor, quickly and efficiently seized Crimea. A rebellion, with “indigenous” rebels suddenly equipped with heavy weaponry and sufficient coordination, quickly metastasized into a full blown insurgency. New, modern and impressive equipment paraded before Moscow and the world in the largest Victory Day Parade since the fall of the Soviet Union.

    The recent activities and public displays of modern equipment leave the impression that Russia has begun fielding a first rate military again, commensurate with its aspirations of being a global power. The role and visibility of the “little green men” in recent months leave an impression of a well-trained and coordinated Russian military, increasingly equipped with state of the art equipment. The takeover of the Crimea peninsula was supremely impressive. It was well executed with professional units. The Airborne (VDV), Naval Infantry and Spetsnaz that were responsible for seizing the initial key points around Crimea were impressive not only for their coordination but their professionalism in the face of journalistic interest. The seizure of Crime was shocking both for the audaciousness of the Kremlin, but also in terms of military capability. Few realized that Russia had the capability to conduct an operation like Crimea. And with increasing concern over the potential return of fighting in Eastern Ukraine, the fears over a resurgent Russian military continue to menace.


    Beyond the public displays lays a more complicated view with more nuanced realities. While Russia has produced new technological toys (such as the Armata series tanks and armored vehicles), Moscow’s ability to pay and sustain modernization efforts leaves lingering doubts about a resurgent Russian military. Despite the almost ebullient hysteria surrounding Russia’s new equipment and capabilities, its military is still hampered by structural, economic and strategic constraints that not only limit its evolution and growth, but also threaten its current progress.

    The “New Look” modernization effort Russia began in 2008 has created two militaries; an elite (or more professional) force capable of conducting rapid, complex operations with generally modern equipment; and the rest of the military, which still relies upon conscription, mass mobilization and mixed levels of modern equipment.

    Even among the “little green men,” the outlook is far more mixed than the Crimea annexation would suggest. Most spetsnaz are actually conscripts on one year terms, although they do get the pick of the conscription call up. As Mark Galeotti notes, “the bulk of spetsnazovets may arguably best be compared with the French Foreign Legion, the British 16th Air Assault Brigade or the U.S. 75th Ranger Regiment, in that they are elite, mobile light infantry able to function in a range of operations and climates, and optimized for interventions, but not a 'Tier One' special operations force.” Moscow does retain around 500 tier one troops (equitable to Delta or Seal Team Six) in a separate force, which were utilized in seizing the Crimean parliament.

    And while the more elite units of the military are starting to embrace small unit independence and rapid deployment, the conventional Russian military continues to be influenced by the old Soviet structure of numerous under-manned units, pre-positioned with equipment to be brought up to full staffing levels during times of conflict. The drawbacks of this design were laid bare during the 2008 war with Georgia, where airborne units (VDV) were able to deploy faster from interior Russia than those units stationed in the Caucasus. The 2008 modernization effort sought to replace this unwieldy division structure with smaller, more agile and autonomous Brigades. Although, the efforts to reduce the reliance upon mass mobilization and undermanned units continue, this trend has been somewhat reversed as some divisions have been brought back.

    Remaining 2 pages you can read from the link




    http://nationalinterest.org/feature/russias-deceptively-weak-military-13059

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    Re: NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:58 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    max steel wrote:   NATO is Ready to Snatch Kaliningrad From Russia – Lithuanian Media


    According to hackers who got into the system of the Lithuanian Armed Forces, the small Baltic country is getting ready to annex Russia’s Kaliningrad region.
    A group of hackers broke into the system of the main office of the Lithuanian Armed Forces late Wednesday and found out that the little Baltic nation has big plans — to snatch Russia's Kaliningrad region, Lithuanian news portal Delfi reported.



    http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150611/1023226099.html#ixzz3d1gXZQxm


    Lol, they wouldn't be able to defeat Swiss Guard protecting the Vatican and they have just a few off them. Try to annex it, they will be vaporized by the ground forces and will get nasty little rocket up their rear called Iskander.
    You should not laugh.

    If NATO/Lithuania really tried to take Kaliningrad I am about 50/50 for Russia not responding in any kind but just accepting defeat.


    Last edited by Karl Haushofer on Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:25 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    max steel wrote:   NATO is Ready to Snatch Kaliningrad From Russia – Lithuanian Media


    According to hackers who got into the system of the Lithuanian Armed Forces, the small Baltic country is getting ready to annex Russia’s Kaliningrad region.
    A group of hackers broke into the system of the main office of the Lithuanian Armed Forces late Wednesday and found out that the little Baltic nation has big plans — to snatch Russia's Kaliningrad region, Lithuanian news portal Delfi reported.



    http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150611/1023226099.html#ixzz3d1gXZQxm


    Lol, they wouldn't be able to defeat Swiss Guard protecting the Vatican and they have just a few off them. Try to annex it, they will be vaporized by the ground forces and will get nasty little rocket up their rear called Iskander.
    You should not laugh.

    If NATO/Lithuania really tried to take Kaliningrad I am about 50/50 for Russia not responding in any kind but just accepting defeat.

    I will laugh like a madman and your claims are so ridiculous like US being protector of the world.

    Lithunia couldn't do jack shit, they have no army. Lithunians themselfs are fools and live in a failed state with nazi parades believing in being western and russia is the enemy. Tell how could you defeat Kaliningrad with M113 tincans with people that have not clue how to even hold a gun?

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    Re: NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:44 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    max steel wrote:   NATO is Ready to Snatch Kaliningrad From Russia – Lithuanian Media


    According to hackers who got into the system of the Lithuanian Armed Forces, the small Baltic country is getting ready to annex Russia’s Kaliningrad region.
    A group of hackers broke into the system of the main office of the Lithuanian Armed Forces late Wednesday and found out that the little Baltic nation has big plans — to snatch Russia's Kaliningrad region, Lithuanian news portal Delfi reported.



    http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150611/1023226099.html#ixzz3d1gXZQxm


    Lol, they wouldn't be able to defeat Swiss Guard protecting the Vatican and they have just a few off them. Try to annex it, they will be vaporized by the ground forces and will get nasty little rocket up their rear called Iskander.
    You should not laugh.

    If NATO/Lithuania really tried to take Kaliningrad I am about 50/50 for Russia not responding in any kind but just accepting defeat.

    I will laugh like a madman and your claims are so ridiculous like US being protector of the world.

    Lithunia couldn't do jack shit, they have no army. Lithunians themselfs are fools and live in a failed state with nazi parades believing in being western and russia is the enemy. Tell how could you defeat Kaliningrad with M113 tincans with people that have not clue how to even hold a gun?
    Of course Lithuania would not be able to take Kaliningrad by itself, but it can provide a base for NATO to lauch an attack against Kaliningrad.

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    Re: NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders

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