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    US military sales to Egypt

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    ahmedfire

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  ahmedfire on Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:18 pm

    Werewolf wrote:Who would want M1A1 that they've paid 10mln per piece, such outdated mediocre system and cost twice of  a new build Leopard2a6 or T-90MS.
    Just a vassal of USA that's why they bought that stuff.
    Not every country buy a US component is a US vassal , egypt recently took Tor-m1 and many hardware from russia, it doesn't mean it's a russia vassal Very Happy 

    We are not Saudi Arabia to pay 10m$ per piece Twisted Evil 
    Egypt has a factory that produces M1A1 tank ,so the production cost is lower than you said ,the cost of producing one unit is 2,6 m$ ,Egypt now is producing most of the body of the tank and importing some electronics from US and Europe

    Factory 200 in Egypt


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    ahmedfire

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  ahmedfire on Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:28 pm

    a89 wrote:I wonder how Egypt will afford Russian equipment, as the economy is clearly struggling. Without US credits, their armed forces would be much smaller.
    US credits is 1.5B$,  not that one that affects Egyptian Army , Egypt GDP is about 400 B$ and Army budget is about 10 to 15 B$ , what could effect economy is the disturbances after toppling MB .
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    ahmedfire

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  ahmedfire on Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:39 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:
    sheytanelkebir wrote:
    they could sell off some surplus weapons, to buy more modern russian weapons. e.g. I am sure that China would be happy to pay some money for a dozen F16s? and maybe some 30 M1A1s. That should raise enough money to pay for a squadron or more of SU35s.
    Not so easy. Arms transfers come with strings attached.
    When the US supplied Egypt with F-16s and M1A1s, there must have been a clause that prevents Egypt passing these weapons to third parties without US consent.
    Right but In 2009, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton wrote to U.S. embassy officials in Cairo describing the State Department's suspicions that Egypt had violated its "end-user agreements" with the U.S. 8 different times over the prior three years. In one instance, Egyptian defense officials allegedly let a Chinese military delegation examine U.S.-made F-16s and related technical facilities

    A Chinese defense company in late 2007 drafted a proposal for submission to the Egyptian military for a test kit designed for use with the US produced AN/ALQ-131 jamming pod and radar warning receiver. this would represent a continuation of a pattern of infractions by Egypt regarding its retransfer and end-use obligations to the United States. Between 2006 and 2007, we notified Congress of 4 possible violations, to include the notification in January 2007 that Egypt allowed testing of a Chinese-manufactured electro-optical countermeasure system ("Bodyguard") against the GOE's U.S.-provided precision guided munitions (PGMs). Most recently in June 2008, the Department notified Congress of an incident involving the possible transfer of a U.S.-origin radar warning receiver technical data to Chinese or French nationals

    PDAS (Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary) [Tom] M.Countryman emphasized the importance of a clear and transparent picture of Egypt’s end-use performance, including the measures being taken to prevent further violations. He noted that Egypt had more potential Section 3 violations than any other country in the world over the last several years. Cases involving the Chinese, he continued, were of particular concern .... The case involving the visit of a Chinese military official to an F-16 base , however, did raise genuine concerns about the transfer of US technology. He noted that U.S. concerns over the visit had already delayed Egypt’s request to purchase F-16 aircraft.

    PDAS Countryman…. suggested [that Egypt’s] MOD (Ministry of Defense) agree in writing to the following actions:
    (1) Conduct an internal analysis of the eight potential violations to be shared with the OMC (Office of Military Cooperation). (2) Commit to an end-use training plan, and (3) Identify one senior official as a point of contact for end-use issues…. 11. (C) Subsequent to the meeting, [Egyptian Assistant Minister of Defense] Mohammed al-Assar reviewed the proposed text, but declined to sign the document…. He declined to conduct an internal analysis on the end-use violations.

    Both [Chief of Staff Lieutenant General Sami Anan] and [Air Marshal Reda] will express concern over releasability issues and frustration with Egypt’s inability to procure restricted weapons systems. Some systems are not releasable because of Egyptian refusal to sign the necessary agreement (CISMOA) providing end-use assurances and ensuring proper protection of certain U.S. origin technology. Releasability is of special concern to the EAF as they prepare to purchase 24 F-16 aircraft that will require a costly retrofit with less-advanced weapons systems. Since 2006, the Department of State has notified Congress of six potential end-use violations by the Egyptian military. We are currently investigating two additional cases, one involving the visit of a Chinese military official to an F-16 facility on an Egyptian Air Force base

    http://www.cablegatesearch.net/cable.php?id=08STATE99685&q=radar+receiver+warning
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/04/us-wiki-diplomacy-business-idUSTRE72335820110304?pageNumber=3
    http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Egypt-to-Spend-32B-in-Updating-F-16CD-Fleet-05860/
    http://www.arabianaerospace.aero/article.php?article=a-force-to-be-reckoned-with&section=defence

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    GarryB

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:15 am

    When the US supplied Egypt with F-16s and M1A1s, there must have been a clause that prevents Egypt passing these weapons to third parties without US consent.
    Of course the US would be the first to violate such clauses if it meant they could get their hands on some interesting stuff... Razz 

    Of course if Egypt can't acquire modern weapons for its F-16s then it becomes a different matter.
    An F-16 without AMRAAM is armed with Sidewinders... F-16s didn't have Sparrow AFAIK, so this modern Mig-35 equivalent you are talking about is actually less well armed than an early 1980s Mig-29B which at least had BVR missiles.

    Not every country buy a US component is a US vassal , egypt recently took Tor-m1 and many hardware from russia, it doesn't mean it's a russia vassal
    Indeed... if a country gets US weapons yet can control its own policies then in many ways it is the US that is the Vassal. Israel is the best example of this... where the spoiled child controls the family...


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    Werewolf

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:23 am

    Of course the US would be the first to violate such clauses if it meant they could get their hands on some interesting stuff... Razz wrote:
    And i really believe that this will be the case with iraqi ordered Ka-52's and Mi-28NE, like USA did in the past with marocco, ordered MSTA-S and was immidiatley shipped to USA and that happend in the early of 21th century and till this day they have no modern SPAAG.
    Since USA is outperformed and really lacks in new technologies for helicopters i guess they would like to get their hands on Ka-52 with the vitebsk system, ejection seats, co-axial design since they have almost zero experience with it especially for military purpose, a much more potetnt radar, better flight managment computer and few things more.
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    GarryB

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:52 am

    The equipment they are exporting is a standard export model...

    ie Russian Army uses Mi-28N and soon Mi-28M, Iraq will be getting Mi-28NE which will tell them very little about the Mi-28M the Russian Army Aviation will have soon.



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    Werewolf

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:25 pm

    I've read in some article about the simplifications of the Mi-28NE compared to Mi-28N domestic version, such as TOES-521 (without stabilisation) vs GOES-521 (gyrostabilized), Mi-28NE was also directly derived from the Mi-28A not from Mi-28N, simplifications in board avionic and so on. Someone know more about that?
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    TR1

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    USA-Egypt military relationship

    Post  TR1 on Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:13 pm

    I would be shocked if they sold an unstabilized system on an attack helo, it would be near useless!
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    ahmedfire

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  ahmedfire on Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:46 pm

    CAIRO — Egypt, in wake of a suspension of U.S. military aid, has turned to Russia for enhanced defense and intelligence cooperation.
    http://www.worldtribune.com/2013/10/30/with-u-s-security-ties-suspended-cairo-opens-dialogue-with-moscow/



    Officials said Egypt and Russia have been conducting a high-level military dialogue amid the crisis with the United States.

    Egyptian Defense Minister Abdul Fatah Sisi.

    The officials said Egyptian Defense Minister Abdul Fatah Sisi was mulling Russian offers of defense and military cooperation.

    “Russia has always tried to sell Egypt advanced systems, but this might be more realistic given current circumstances,” an official said.

    On Oct. 28, Russian military intelligence chief Gen. Vacheslav Kondrasco arrived in Cairo for what officials said marked an effort to renew a strategic dialogue between the Kremlin and Egypt.

    Officials said Kondrasco was discussing Egypt’s military requirements and the prospect of Russian arms sales. Russia was the leading military supplier to Egypt in the 1960s and 1970s.

    The visit by Kondrasco came in wake of the U.S. suspension of major arms
    sales to Egypt. Under the suspension, Egypt saw a halt to the U.S. delivery
    of F-16 multi-role fighters, AH-64D Apache Longbow attack helicopters and
    M1A1 main battle tanks.

    “The visit does not mean that Egypt no longer wants U.S. or Western
    cooperation,” the official said.

    Officials said Egypt, which received $1.3 billion in annual U.S.
    military aid, has expressed interest in cooperation with Moscow. They cited
    joint defense production, military exercises and intelligence exchange.

    Kondrasco was said to have met Sisi as well as Chief of Staff Gen. Sidqi
    Sobhi. Officials said both countries regarded the visit as having strategic
    implications for Egypt
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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  GarryB on Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:57 pm

    Would like to see Su-30s built in Egypt that carry any weapon the Egyptian AF wants them to carry... including ARH missiles.  Smile

    Of course without US aid a lot of US equipment will suddenly become much more expensive to operate... I suspect the fuel bill for Abrams tanks alone will make them expensive to own.


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    ahmedfire

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  ahmedfire on Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:19 am

    GarryB wrote:Would like to see Su-30s built in Egypt that carry any weapon the Egyptian AF wants them to carry... including ARH missiles.  Smile

    Of course without US aid a lot of US equipment will suddenly become much more expensive to operate... I suspect the fuel bill for Abrams tanks alone will make them expensive to own.
    I hope too:)
    US aid is not that much ,it could affect but alittle effect it can do , Egypt army budget is about 12-15 billion$ , US aid is 1B$ ,so we can sill own what we own now , Egypt has a Petroleum refining unit that produces JP8 fuel for the army .
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    GarryB

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  GarryB on Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:36 am

    Egypt has a Petroleum refining unit that produces JP8 fuel for the army

    Even still, you don't want to just p!ss that fuel away on jet powered tanks...


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    ahmedfire

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  ahmedfire on Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:44 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Egypt has a Petroleum refining unit that produces JP8 fuel for the army
    Even still, you don't want to just p!ss that fuel away on jet powered tanks...
    Sorry Garry what do you mean ?
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    SOC

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  SOC on Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:24 am

    ahmedfire wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    Egypt has a Petroleum refining unit that produces JP8 fuel for the army
    Even still, you don't want to just p!ss that fuel away on jet powered tanks...
    Sorry Garry what do you mean ?
    Abrams uses a gas turbine engine, meaning it's powered by a turboshaft basically similar to what you'd find in a helicopter or turboprop. Abrams can also run off of diesel fuel, though I don't know what side effects that would cause.
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    ahmedfire

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  ahmedfire on Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:09 am

    SOC wrote:Abrams uses a gas turbine engine, meaning it's powered by a turboshaft basically similar to what you'd find in a helicopter or turboprop. Abrams can also run off of diesel fuel, though I don't know what side effects that would cause.
    Abrams can use JP-8 fuel efficiently

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    collegeboy16

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  collegeboy16 on Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:41 am

    cant u reengine those tanks with mtu diesels?
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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:12 pm

    collegeboy16 wrote:cant u reengine those tanks with mtu diesels?
    The M1A3 will have a 1500 HP diesel engine.
    And AFAIK it will be the very exact leopard 2 MTU engine from KMW.
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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  ahmedfire on Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:28 pm

    collegeboy16 wrote:cant u reengine those tanks with mtu diesels?
    Less Fuel, More Range: GD Has a Plan

    General Dynamics is kicking off a new strategy to sell the Army the infantry vehicles and tanks it (eventually) needs to ferry troops to the next fight, wherever that may be.

    More specifically, the company is looking to tweak its existing Abrams tanks, Strykers, and Buffalo route-clearing MRAPs to offer better protection while guzzling less fuel, thereby giving Army formations greater range at less cost, according to a briefing delivered by a group of GD execs.

    Mike Cannon, GD’s senior vp for Ground Combat Systems said that the company is “getting away from being platform specific” when it comes to this new strategy, instead focusing on the ground assets of the infantry brigade as a whole.

    First up is the company’s plan to install a diesel engine on the Abrams tank, which would result in a 14 percent cost reduction per mile when compared to the turbine engine currently in the tank, while extending its range by 105 miles
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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  GarryB on Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:14 am

    Abrams can also run off of diesel fuel, though I don't know what side effects that would cause.


    Aviation Kerosene is expensive... but most modern tank engines can run on a range of fuel types... the Russian T series engines can run on Petrol, Diesel, or kerosene or their mixtures too. The digital fuel control systems allow them to adapt to the fuel going through them.


    First up is the company’s plan to install a diesel engine on the Abrams tank, which would result in a 14 percent cost reduction per mile when compared to the turbine engine currently in the tank, while extending its range by 105 miles
    Not only is diesel much much cheaper than kerosene as a fuel if you multiply 105 miles on every tank of fuel for every MBT you have and the numbers get quite big... though not suggesting running a tank is cheap.


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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  George1 on Fri Jan 02, 2015 10:50 pm

    US Delivers 10 Apache Helicopters To Egypt

    WASHINGTON – The United States delivered 10 Apache helicopters to Egypt in recent weeks after lifting part of a freeze on aid to the north African nation, a US official said Saturday.

    US Secretary of State John Kerry promised Cairo's new leadership that the aircraft — aimed to join counter-terrorism operations in the Sinai peninsula — would be delivered soon.

    "They got there a few weeks ago," a US senior administration official told AFP.

    Kerry announced in June that he was "confident" Egypt would receive the helicopter gunships soon, and reiterated that in a phone call to Foreign Minister Sameh Shoukry.

    The United States annually allocates about $1.5 billion in aid to Egypt, including $1.3 billion in military assistance.

    That was frozen in October 2013 on condition that democratic reforms be enacted after the July 2013 military-led overthrow of Islamist elected president Mohamed Morsi and a vicious crackdown on his followers.

    Washington said in April it planned to resume some of the annual aid for counterterrorism efforts in the Sinai Peninsula.

    US President Barack Obama spoke to his Egyptian counterpart Abdel Fattah al-Sisi on Thursday and expressed concern over mass trials and the continued detention of journalists and peaceful activists.

    During a telephone call, the White House said, Obama encouraged Sisi to "invest in the political, economic, and social aspirations of the Egyptian people."

    "President Obama also expressed concern about mass trials, the status of NGOs, and the continued imprisonment of journalists and peaceful activists in Egypt," the statement said.

    Egypt's military has battled an insurgency on the peninsula since it overthrew Islamist president Mohamed Morsi last year and cracked down on his supporters.

    The government declared a state of emergency in parts of North Sinai after an Oct. 24 suicide attack near El-Arish killed 30 soldiers in the deadliest assault on security forces since Morsi's ouster.

    Militant groups claim their attacks are in retaliation for a government crackdown targeting Morsi's supporters that has left hundreds dead and thousands jailed.
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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  George1 on Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:19 pm



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    George1

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  George1 on Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:56 pm

    The Vice-president of the American Lockheed Martin’s Dennys Plessas said the Egypt will receive two C-130Js Super Hercules military transport aircraft.

    http://defence-blog.com/news/egypt-will-receive-two-c-130js-super-hercules-military-transport-aircraft.html


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    max steel

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  max steel on Tue May 17, 2016 1:35 am

    Egypt - UGM-84L Harpoon Block II Encapsulated Missiles

    The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to Egypt for UGM-84L Harpoon Block II Encapsulated Missiles and equipment, training, and support. The estimated cost is $143 million. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale on May 11, 2016.

    The Government of Egypt has requested a possible sale of:

    **Major Defense Equipment (MDE) includes:
    -- Twenty (20) UGM-84L Harpoon Block II Encapsulated Missiles
    -- Two (2) Encapsulated Harpoon Certification Training Vehicles (EHCTV)

    ** Non-MDE items also included are containers, spare and repair parts, support and test equipment, publications and technical documentation, personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor representative technical assistance, engineering and logistics support services, and other related elements of logistics support.

    This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a strategic partner that has been and continues to be an important force for political stability and economic progress in the Middle East.

    The proposed sale of these submarine-launched missiles will support the Egyptian Navy’s Type 209 submarines, increasing its anti-surface warfare and maritime security capabilities. Egypt already possesses Harpoon Block II missiles and will have no difficulty absorbing these additional weapons.

    The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not alter the basic military balance in the region.

    The prime contractor will be The Boeing Company in St. Louis, Missouri. There are no known offset agreements proposed in connection with this potential sale.

    Implementation of this proposed sale will require annual trips to Egypt involving U.S. Government and contractor representatives for technical reviews, support, and oversight for approximately five years.

    There will be no adverse impact on United States defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale.

    This notice of a potential sale is required by law and does not mean the sale has been concluded.
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    Egypt receives second batch of MRAPs from the U.S.

    Post  airstrike on Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:07 pm


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