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    US military sales to Egypt

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    Vladimir79

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    US military sales to Egypt

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:48 pm

    Egypt intends to buy 12 attack helicopters AH-64D "Apache Longbow"
    29.05.2009

    MOSCOW, May 28. (ARMS-TASS). Agency for defense cooperation and security, the U.S. DoD (DSCA) notified Congress of a proposed sale of the land of Egypt attack helicopters AH-64D "block 2" Apache Longbou, as well as related equipment and services contract in the framework of the foreign military sales. " The total cost of the agreement, in the case of all options, could reach 820 million USD.

    The Egyptian government asked the United States with the request for the sale of 12 attack helicopters AH-64D "block 2" Apache Longbou, 27 gas-turbine engines T700-GE-701D, 36 upgraded systems to detect and target / night vision systems M-TADS/PNVS, 28 launchers, missiles AGM-114B "Hellfayr Longbou" M299, 14 automatic shooting false heat goals AN/ALQ-144 (V) 3, 14 sets of warning radar radiation AN/APR-39B (V) 2, the supply of spare parts and a technical support.

    The main contractors contract selected by Boeing, Lockheed Martin and General Electric.

    Congress has 30 days to block the proposed sale, otherwise the agreement will enter into force.

    Egypt will not experience difficulties with the adoption of new helicopters to adopt. 36 rotary-wing aircraft configuration AH-64A "Apache" were the Egyptian Air Force in 1994-1996. In September 2000, the Government of Egypt to the United States with a request to upgrade 35 helicopters, AH-64A. Under an intergovernmental agreement, signed with the U.S. DoD Boeing contracts worth 400 million dollars to modernize the Air Force helicopters to Egypt configuration AH-64D "Apache Longbou. Work on refurbishment began in 2001 and was completed in late 2006.

    Since the start of production of AH-64 Apache was delivered to foreign customers about 300 helicopters, versions of "A" and "D", including the Supreme Council of Greece (32), Israel (49), Japan (13), Kuwait (16), Netherlands ( 29), Singapore (20), Britain (67), Saudi Arabia (12), the United Arab Emirates (30). In 2008, the request for the sale of 30 and 12 helicopters, AH-64D, respectively, called Taiwan, and Saudi Arabia.
    28.05.2009

    The rights to this material belong to ARMS-TASS
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    Turk1

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  Turk1 on Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:00 am

    OK, how the hell do they get Apache Longbow when the US say they don't have any for us???
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    Vladislav

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  Vladislav on Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:27 am

    Turk1 wrote:OK, how the hell do they get Apache Longbow when the US say they don't have any for us???

    Oh, poor Turks... you won't be getting F-35 but two years late and US won't sell you gunships. Who is your friend now? Russia selling Mi-28N, that's who! Laughing
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    ahmedfire

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    about SLAMRAAM??

    Post  ahmedfire on Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:48 pm

    usa give egypt SLAMRAAM for air defence (version of amrram for land to air defence)..
    but usa refused to give us the AMMRAM(to keep balance with israel)..
    now and technicaly ,can egypt use SLAMRAAm as AMMRAM on fighters ?????
    thanx.. Very Happy
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    GarryB

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  GarryB on Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:07 am

    So Egypt has what? Sparrow missiles for BVR?
    Or just Sidewinder and no BVR?

    You guys need to look elsewhere... do what the Indians do and buy from multiple sources. You could try buying from America and France the way India buy from Russia and France.

    France can provide you with stuff the US wont sell like BVR missiles.

    In fact you'd probably be better off with French BVR missiles as they have IR BVR missiles as well as radar guided weapons... that will become more important as stealth aircraft proliferate.

    Regarding your question it should be possible I suppose, but I would be worried that the IFF systems in the missiles will be tainted so to speak.

    In other words if you get a lock on an aircraft that the system identifies as Israeli you might find you have a minor malfunction that causes the missile to fail or some glitch that prevents it from working properly.

    You wont be able to prove it has a mechanism built in to prevent its use against aircraft of the Juice, but it will be there I think.
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    ahmedfire

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  ahmedfire on Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:39 pm

    GarryB wrote:So Egypt has what? Sparrow missiles for BVR?
    Or just Sidewinder and no BVR?

    You guys need to look elsewhere... do what the Indians do and buy from multiple sources. You could try buying from America and France the way India buy from Russia and France.

    France can provide you with stuff the US wont sell like BVR missiles.

    In fact you'd probably be better off with French BVR missiles as they have IR BVR missiles as well as radar guided weapons... that will become more important as stealth aircraft proliferate.

    Regarding your question it should be possible I suppose, but I would be worried that the IFF systems in the missiles will be tainted so to speak.

    In other words if you get a lock on an aircraft that the system identifies as Israeli you might find you have a minor malfunction that causes the missile to fail or some glitch that prevents it from working properly.

    You wont be able to prove it has a mechanism built in to prevent its use against aircraft of the Juice, but it will be there I think.
    we already have the french mica missiles,it's range is good for our tactics in air to air combat with israel, havn't AMMRAM is not the end of the world (high ranges for a2a missiles still Theoretically for now,but at real combat,i think it's just 50 km is the max distance that you can hit your enemy in air 2 air combat by using any BVR missile)...
    we have also some R73 on russian aircrafts...
    we are going to manufacture JF17 aircrft with pakistan and china,,equipping it with some PL10 and PL12....

    about your answer on my question
    what will be the problem with IFF systems?
    is the missile will not recognise friend from foe?


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    IronsightSniper

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  IronsightSniper on Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:32 am

    Garry thinks we'd rig your SLAMRAAMs so that it will see Israeli planes as friendlies.

    Obviously unproven.
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    GarryB

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  GarryB on Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:04 am

    Garry thinks we'd rig your SLAMRAAMs so that it will see Israeli planes as friendlies.

    Obviously unproven.

    Nah, America would never do that... Laughing

    about your answer on my question
    what will be the problem with IFF systems?
    is the missile will not recognise friend from foe?

    Of course your American IFF systems will not be so blatant as to show Israel aircraft as friendlies. The System itself lets you program friendly aircraft and enemy aircraft and will display anything not covered by those two descriptors as unknown.

    No, what it would do is when an aircraft using Israeli codes is detected it will display them as configured... presumably enemy. When you try to engage them with US weapons however some part of the system will develop a strange minor fault that will prevent you from firing on the Israeli target. Or if it does allow you to launch the missile will somehow fail to hit the target, or the warhead will not fuse.

    What I am saying is that if the enemy is Israel then they will probably have enough information about your air defence network from US sources to do to you what they did to Syria. That is hack into your AD network and for specific strikes simply redirect your radars so they are not looking in a direction that will allow them to see Israeli aircraft. This will work with AD radars, but batteries operating with their own radars that just get data from the AD network and are not controlled by the network will still be a threat.
    Problem for Syria is that most of their SAMs were rather old systems whose radars were large and probably linked directly into the AD network.

    A well set up network will not have all its radars operating all the time, it will have some radiating and providing coverage of areas that need it and lots of other radars just listening for radar energy reflected from objects in the sky, or active emissions from aircraft. A hacker might only need to turn a radar 90 degrees for 5 minutes for a strike package to get through and ensure other specific radars are not turned on.

    With more modern SAMs like Pantsir-S1 located at the target site with its own radars and IR detection systems enemy aircraft will be spotted and that information passed to the AD network and someone will start turning on radars and powering up the heavy SAMs so any aircraft leaving the airspace will have to run a gauntlet of larger SAMs.
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    IronsightSniper

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  IronsightSniper on Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:36 am

    Which goes back to Point A, unproven.

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    ahmedfire

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  ahmedfire on Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:08 pm

    thanks Garry for interested words... thumbsup

    Nah, America would never do that... Laughing
    about something like that,,
    i heard from 2 years about some programs and codes that usa put in exported planes to some countries,as exampel egypt,,and at any war against israel,americans will use these prgrams to stop these planes or make something wrong in launching bombs and missiles.!!
    after that i heared that egyptian engineers succeeded in stopping these bad programs Wink
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    GarryB

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:22 am

    You gotta check your software.

    Of course some software is hard coded and not open source so you can't check everything.

    Which goes back to Point A, unproven.

    Very much so, but they have done worse in the past and would be pretty stupid not to try.
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    IronsightSniper

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  IronsightSniper on Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:47 am

    Or perhaps we're good business men and won't rig everything to fail Twisted Evil
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    GarryB

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  GarryB on Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:32 am

    Hey, I don't blame the US for this.

    It is really no different from selling monkey models to less close allies.

    It is totally their choice to use your stuff.

    Let the buyer beware.

    It is Russian law that exported military material not be as good as domestic stuff. Now for the past two decades that has not really been possible because it has largely been foreign money that develops the technology, but as local funding and local consumption take over the drive forward that law will likely start to be more vigorously enforced/applied.

    It might be a few lines in Chinese products that have been copied directly from Russian products that prevent targets identified as Russian AF or Indian AF from being intercepted.
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    IronsightSniper

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  IronsightSniper on Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:55 am

    Blame the US for what? Those SLAMRAAMs don't have rigged IFFs to give a tactical advantage to the Israelis in the event of a conflict.
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    GarryB

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  GarryB on Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:44 am

    Of course they haven't.






    The US government does not lie.
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    IronsightSniper

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  IronsightSniper on Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:55 am

    No Governments every lie. All hail russia

    Simple fact is simple, no rigged IFFs on your SLAMRAAMs.
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:42 am

    I think the IFF for SLAMRAAM has to be connected to the JTIDS for it to work.

    a89

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  a89 on Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:03 pm

    I wonder how Egypt will afford Russian equipment, as the economy is clearly struggling. Without US credits, their armed forces would be much smaller.

    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:11 pm

    a89 wrote:I wonder how Egypt will afford Russian equipment, as the economy is clearly struggling. Without US credits, their armed forces would be much smaller.
    they could sell off some surplus weapons, to buy more modern russian weapons. e.g. I am sure that China would be happy to pay some money for a dozen F16s? and maybe some 30 M1A1s. That should raise enough money to pay for a squadron or more of SU35s.
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  TheArmenian on Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:38 pm

    sheytanelkebir wrote:
    they could sell off some surplus weapons, to buy more modern russian weapons. e.g. I am sure that China would be happy to pay some money for a dozen F16s? and maybe some 30 M1A1s. That should raise enough money to pay for a squadron or more of SU35s.
    Not so easy. Arms transfers come with strings attached.
    When the US supplied Egypt with F-16s and M1A1s, there must have been a clause that prevents Egypt passing these weapons to third parties without US consent.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  Werewolf on Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:18 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:
    sheytanelkebir wrote:
    they could sell off some surplus weapons, to buy more modern russian weapons. e.g. I am sure that China would be happy to pay some money for a dozen F16s? and maybe some 30 M1A1s. That should raise enough money to pay for a squadron or more of SU35s.
    Not so easy. Arms transfers come with strings attached.
    When the US supplied Egypt with F-16s and M1A1s, there must have been a clause that prevents Egypt passing these weapons to third parties without US consent.
    Who would want M1A1 that they've paid 10mln per piece, such outdated mediocre system and cost twice of a new build Leopard2a6 or T-90MS.
    Just a vassal of USA that's why they bought that stuff.
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    Viktor

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  Viktor on Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:32 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    TheArmenian wrote:
    sheytanelkebir wrote:
    they could sell off some surplus weapons, to buy more modern russian weapons. e.g. I am sure that China would be happy to pay some money for a dozen F16s? and maybe some 30 M1A1s. That should raise enough money to pay for a squadron or more of SU35s.
    Not so easy. Arms transfers come with strings attached.
    When the US supplied Egypt with F-16s and M1A1s, there must have been a clause that prevents Egypt passing these weapons to third parties without US consent.
    Who would want M1A1 that they've paid 10mln per piece, such outdated mediocre system and cost twice of  a new build Leopard2a6 or T-90MS.
    Just a vassal of USA that's why they bought that stuff.
    Actually Egypt did not bought that stuff. It was part of 2 bin$ annual US help to Egypt that was in more than 90% paid in military assets.

    That means US gave Egypt each year certain amount of AH-64, F-16, M1 etc. In order for Egypt to keep receiving military aid each year, Egypt had to become US stonghold in Africa 

    from where US will control all N.Africa and Middle East. It also meant Israel will be safe and contract in Camp David was signe. Those are the most important "stings" attached to military 

    aid.
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    GarryB

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:42 pm

    Abrams aren't bad tanks... if you can afford to buy them and run them they are actually pretty good vehicles.


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    AlfaT8

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  AlfaT8 on Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:56 pm

    GarryB wrote:Abrams aren't bad tanks... if you can afford to buy them and run them they are actually pretty good vehicles.
    Then lets agree to disagree. Wink 
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    flamming_python

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    Re: US military sales to Egypt

    Post  flamming_python on Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:41 am

    F-16s are also good.
    I would imagine that the latest F-16s would be more or less equivalent to the MiG-35; minus 3D thrust vectoring but perhaps with a couple of advantages somewhere.

    Of course if Egypt can't acquire modern weapons for its F-16s then it becomes a different matter.

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